star49Good luck. We’ve seen how much luck the US has had over the software piracy issue and Microsoft’s a hell of a lot bigger than Sukhoi. If China wants to copy it it will.
Sukhoi is alot more powerful in influencing the government than Microsoft. If they see something contrary to its interest they will slap ban on entire country exports. Russia is not depended on any single country.
star49It is a silly thread. Where would the lawsuit take place? In what court?
Especially from Russia whose entire jet aircraft industry is based on stolen Western and German technology.
entire aircraft industry based on stolen western technology? Russian hasnt taken to task the West for using its Scientific knowlege for past 300 years. Even Alfred Nobel got his Chemistry education from StPetersburg. It is same myth circulating that Russian learned railway from British.
star49Err, what? You are talking about redrawing borders or going back to pre-1991 situation? Sorry, dude but you forgot to ask those people in Slovakia, Czech Rep, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Romania, Bulgaria or Hungary whether they actually agree with that.
I can tell you something – you are no more welcome…
so do u think i created this problem that i am not welcome. I presented what i read. u have a serious problem in EU. IF u want to go by history than it will go to right into 1917 and its external funding. and than second world war and later 80s&90s puppets that fought against Russians. Russians believe there scale of response should be at level of US.
Remaining militants in Northern Caucasus are funded by the West – Russian general
MOSCOW. May 8 (Interfax-AVN) – The Russian Interior Ministry Forces and other law enforcement officers will not allow a new war in the North Caucasus, Forces Commander Gen. Nikolai Rogozhkin told Interfax-AVN.
“The command of illegal armed forces in Chechnya has been fully destroyed, and our forces, together with colleagues, will not allow a new war in the Caucasus or more intensive operations by militants,” he said.
There are several hundred militants in the North Caucasus, the general said. “Only the obnoxious ringleaders are still operating in that region. Unfortunately, they enjoy the financial support of the West. We think there are no more than 400-600 militants left and they keep migrating from one republic to another,” he said.
This year Interior Ministry Forces have killed about 50 militants. “We are concerned about the situation in Ingushetia, where a militant was killed today. We think that similar incursions are possible in other republics, but they will be stopped immediately,” Rogozhkin said.
Rogozhkin said his forces are ready to respond to a terrorist attack within five minutes.
“Our forces are ready to stop a terrorist act five minutes after they receive the order,” the general said.
star49Denmark and Germany are both old member of NATO and border the Baltic, NATO has been in the Baltic since NATO was created. Nothing new there. Aside of course from the Baltic States now joining as a result of their experiences in the early 1990’s.
Baltic states experiance of 1990s? what about peaceful unification of east-west Germany. Threre was commentary in russia-today (Peter level) on Victory day where they were direct linking Pear Harbor attack to Hiroshima.(scale of response) . It will be the whole history rewriting again.
http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/536641/1776079
Mayor wants return of naval base
the whole point is Europe can solve this in peaceful way otherwise Asia will take advantage of it.
star49And flying jet fighters over the Capital of the three Baltic States trampling their airspace and disregarding the instructions of Ground Control his what? A good humoured prank?
And what are NATO jets doing in Baltic?. Baltic countries are soverign countries but it does not mean they create military structures from outside. the same is true for entire Eastern Europe( Eastern EU does not have coast to Atlantic). No new military structures after end of previous Coldwar (1991). Russia-China resolved border conflict in 90s on basis that military should be far away from borders and they havent violated. Now Russia intendes to apply the same formula to all its neighbors and that will include redrawing of borders for alot of countries. so choice is either go back to what was pre-1991 or much wider scale coldwar.
star49China has its own 5th Gen fighter program and has never actively participated in Joint development with any country aside from the US.
so what engine went into US-China joint fighter?. All Chinese programes are joint programs. (Joint by definition means when your using outside help in various ways). Even there was report on MotorSch-Progress site of alteast 80engines for K-8. TVC is not just related to nozzle but implementation in FBW thats the whole point.
star49China starts producing Russian Mi-171 helicopters – paper
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080512/107127123.html
MOSCOW, May 12 (RIA Novosti) – A manufacturing plant in southwest China has started to assemble Russian-designed Mi-171 transport helicopters, one of Russia’s key arms exports, the Russian business daily Vedomosti said on Monday.
star49And those parts have to come from China just because Chinese engineers are giving advice? If Chinese personal are drafted in to help, then it would almost certainly be to give advice and training and passing on the experience and expertise they learnt from operting Flankers. Even if in the extremely unlikely case that Chinese personal are required to perform repairs or whatnot themselves, then there is abosolutely nothing stopping them using Russian parts to do it.
So what adding of value? ur assuming that Chinese have learnt best practices which is not the case.
Are you kidding me? Please don’t tell me you don’t think after sales service plays any part in a purchase decision.
Nope they dont take part in purchase decision. Venzuela bought Su-30 regardless of price and support. just as India bought MIG-29 in 1985.
The first planes were not delivered till June 1992. Its May 2008 now. Thats 16 years not “already 17 years”. Negociations only started in 1990, and even if you count that as ‘operating’ thats still not 20 years.
Keep digging. :rolleyes:
do u think Chinese learnt to Fly and maintain Flanker by itself after delivery? No airforce do it even now in age of advance simulators.They were in Russia since 1990 with its own people to learn and observe manufacturing.
star49Not exactly, Russians are not famous for that hospitality & won’t go that extra mile to let a customer abandon their own stuff and help the customer to integrate somebody else’s counterparts! The Choice of some equipments is the sole decision of the customer RMAF, which is responsible to integrate it. Russians won’t guarantee the functional competency.
Don’t forget, RMAF has more ambitious on its Su30MKM, they are considering integrating the French made MICA & Topsight HMD with their Su30MKM, a decision deemed to be not welcomed by Russians. However, Chinese can be the alternative source for help, considering Chinese are the other one who have inside out knowledge of Flanker.
so Chinese can integrated MICA on Flanker? and this is old news MICA has been abondoned. Russia was willing to integrated French EW system and targeting pod so whats the big deal about light weight IIR missile. and they did Topsight for IN MIG-29K. It is only Russia that goes extra mile as there is money and experianced gain in integration work also. And alot of EU company has applied for licenses in opening subsidiaries in Russia and that includes Thales but license havent been granted yet.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2004/03/16/178906/irkut-to-establish-systems-integration-division.html
16/03/04
Irkut to establish systems integration division
Russian manufacturer Irkut has created a systems integration division and will offer its expertise to other Russian companies seeking to upgrade military aircraft for the export market.
Irkut president Alexei Federov says the company gained valuable experience when integrating a multinational systems package on the Indian air force’s Sukhoi Su-30MKI multirole fighters. The aircraft uses equipment from suppliers including France’s Thales and Israel’s Elisra, as well as Indian and Russian suppliers. Federov says there were considerable logistical problems with the integration, and that this experience will be valuable to future upgrades of Russian aircraft for exports
star49Not only is that a total misquote of what I said, it also has absolutely nothing to do with China supplying parts for Malaysia’s Flankers.
what is meant by service of fighter jet than? Fighter jet usually replace alot of serviceable parts during a sorties.
Only to someone who can’t read. :rolleyes:
I said good service provided will be “a factor that will be counted as a positive for choosing Chinese planes next time”.
A factor, not the entire criteria. Please learn to read.
what i wrote than differently? why should a Service be a criteria.
How does that make it that the PLAAF have been operating flankers for 20 years? Yet more totally irrelevent and pointless spam thrown out as digital chaff to try and distort the fact that you can’t count. :rolleyes:
1992-2000(9years)
2001-2008 (8years).
your already at 17 years even without that indepth evalutaion of acquisition.
star49Have you got a reading disability or something? Firstly, for the third time, I never said I thought/think China is going to take over from Russia to supply spares for the Malaysian Flankers. How bloody hard is that to understand? :rolleyes:
Secondly, what the hell has Mig29s got to do with this? Typical star49 diversion tactics to bring in random and irrelevent crap to try and confuse the issue. :rolleyes:
thats what you wrote. Based on [b]Service[b] provide Malaysia is going to chose [b]Chinese[b] Plane. it is like saying that malaysia willl chose LCA based on service provide by IAF.
And if the Chinese can make a good enough impression with the servicing they provide, then that is going to be a factor that will be counted as a positive for choosing Chinese planes next time there is a big order due.
So you are counting the evaluation and negociation stage as ‘operating’ as well now? 16(18) =/= 20 How hard can that be to understand? :rolleyes:
Evalaution of fighter jet is very indepth, long and detailed process before anything is signed up. Every airforce come to different conclusion. It take typically 3 to 5 years in most export cases unless ur chosing F-7.
star49F-22 vs F-35 which one has better nose pointing ability?. The one which is better in shooting down/avoiding missiles will be a better fighter. I think amount of composites usage in F-22 is lesser than F-35 and if F-35 weighs over 12 tons. u add second 2 ton engine. F-22 will way considerably more. For Same range F-35 performance should be close as it will need less amount of fuel to produce similar performance.
star49I have said it before and I will say it again now, read what has been written and understand it before launching into a rant about some imagined issue that has nothing to do with what has actually been said. :rolleyes:
In my last post I point out that it was likely that the Malaysians would only be looking for the Chinese to help with some basic maintaince and servicing not covered in the orignal servicing contract with the manufacturer. How the hell did that turn into ‘high end parts replacement and upgrades’? :rolleyes:
If China cant supply upgrade to midlevel fighter like MIG-29SM than what chance it has for more advance like Su-30MKM? Even then engines on those are certified at 2000hrs.
Besides, you can’t even get basic facts right. China has not been operating Flankers for 2 decades.
China starte evaluating Flankers first in 1990 and devilvered in 1992. So it is almost 18+ years.
star49Well, as Arthur has pointed out, it is very likely that the Malaysian Flankers came with a service package. One would need to see the fine print to know what is and isn’t allowed, but if it is like normal comercial contracts, then the warranty would be void if the operator did anything to the plane that was not authorised. The use of third party engineers and/or parts to service the planes is very likely to void the warranty.
Thus I do not expect any major deals, it could simply be a case of the Malaysians getting some Chinese experts in to advise them on how to do some basic servicing work that is allowed in the contract (after all, can’t have fighters being grounded because the ground crews are not allowed to tighten some loose screws, that would just be silly).
But even that would be a blow to the Russian aviation industry as it is effectively saying Russian after-sales support leaves much to be desired.
And if the Chinese can make a good enough impression with the servicing they provide, then that is going to be a factor that will be counted as a positive for choosing Chinese planes next time there is a big order due.
ur too much extrapolating. what RMAF is looking for is training and maintaince experaince that Chinese gained over 2 decades of operational life for Flankers. they are certainly not looking at high end parts replacment. For upgrades they will go to where high technology resides.MIG/Klimov also learned alot from IAF MIG-29 experiance in that climate.
arms-tass.su
MOSCOW, on 29 April. (Korr.ARMS- TASS). Ural optical-mechanical plant (UOMZ) concluded supply agreement of equipment for the optico- locating stations of yeS of destroyers MiG-29 VVS of Malaysia. Document is signed in the course of the yy-oy international exhibition of armament and military equipment Dsa-2008 in Kuala-Lumpure, the press- service of enterprise reported.“UOMZ is present on the market of Malaysia since 2003, and in this time we observe the dynamic development of relations, noted the deputy Director-General OF UOMZ on external economic activity and sales to special-production Veniamin elinson
the Optico- locating station of yeS, by developer and official producer of which he is ON “UOMZ”, enters into the composition of control system of the armament of destroyer MiG-29. Station is intended for the work along the aerial targets at all combat altitudes at any time of day and night, against the background of water, the earth and clouds under the conditions of the action of electronic jamming. By means of yeS is achieved target search on its thermal emission, determination of coordinates, seizure and tracking with the transmission of information to weapon of destructions for applying of gunnery armament and guided missiles
star49I think Malaysia was also looking at India.
and Sukhoi will have shortage of personal in future as they will be concentrated in servicing Ruaf fleet and spares will be expensive.
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