star49Hello Star , I have worked with boeing and have been a consultant for the 787 uptil august of last year , i was at the rollout amongst all the smoke screaned fan fair.
I can tell you that the buisness case is not all bad , the execution is bad however once figured out the buisness case is going to get boeing good profit . Ofcourse some aspects of it are going to be ineffeceient and boeing might not like to replicate those however an era of using incresing no of partners , outsourcing design and manuf. work has come and boeing know that they cannot be competitive if they dont do all of this .
Thats what i said. this business model is not working when u add another layer of suppliers u have to take into account there profits. combined that with earlier low prices & rising cost now.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aY_Lz39j6srw&refer=home
Estimate CutNadol cut his 2009 delivery forecast for the twin-aisle, long-haul jetliner to 30 planes from 60 and reduced his earnings estimate for the year by 30 cents to $6.85 a share.
“We are mainly concerned with two issues,” Nadol wrote. “The certification timeline is still uncertain, as the first plane has yet to fly, and the large number of 787s sold at low prices, combined with rising recurring costs, are steadily eating away at program margins and long-term program profitability.”
Tull said Boeing has never given estimates for the number of 2009 deliveries.
star49what about sales
now let us see the numbers of Embraer
Firm orders of ERJ-145 family 915 aircraft, delivered 869, firm orders back log 46
Firm orders E-170 family 764 aircraft delivered 334 firm orders backlog 438 options 917
source http://www.embraer.com/english/conte…er_numeros.asp firm order backlog USD $18.6 billion
u can 1000 orders but it is just assembling. Thats why u have only $7.6B of market cap.
Russian through Aviation projects is laying foundation of Scienfic base that will dominate the rest of century. 5th generation fighter is major project it includes all the knowledge about advance manufacturing techniques, engine development & very high end avionics systems that u can use in Civillian planes. Brazil simply dont have a single project on that scale.
http://www.avid.ru/eng/advanced-developments/based-ps-12
PS-7Thrust
Take off (N = 0; M = 0), kgf 7000
Maximum take off power, kgf 7700
Cruise
(N = 11 km; M = 0.8; ISA), kgf 1550.
Specific fuel consumption
at cruise, kg/kgf hr 0.620
Fan diameter, mm 1210
Dry weight, kg 1350For long-range executive (business) aircraft of the TU-414 type and “Global express” (Bombardier)
Number of passengers 8…19
Flight range, km 8000…11000
Take-off weight, ton 40…45and regional aircraft
Number of passengers 60-95;
Flight range, km 2500…4000
Take-off weight, ton 40…45PS-9
Thrust
Take-off (N = 0; M = 0), kgf 9000
Maximum take-off power, kgf 10000
Cruise
(N = 11 km; M = 0.8; ISA), kgf 2100
Specific fuel consumption
at cruise, kg/kgf hr 0.590
Fan diameter, mm 1435
Dry weight, kg 1800For short-haul aircraft of the TU-334 type
Number of passengers 100…110
Flight length, km 2000…2500
Take-off weight, ton 50…60and multi-purpose amphibious airplane of the Be-200 type.
PS-14P
Thrust
Take off (N = 0; M = 0), kgf 14 500
Maximum take-off power, kgf 15 900
Cruise mode
(N = 11 km; M = 0.8; ISA), kgf 2750
Specific fuel consumption
at cruise, kg/kgf hr 0.530
Fan diameter, mm 2 050
Dry weight, kg 2600For advanced modifications of medium-haul aircraft and transport aircraft of IL-76 family.
PS-18P
Thrust
Take off (N = 0; M = 0), kgf 18 000
Maximum take-off power, kgf 20 000
Cruise mode
(N = 11 km; M = 0.8; ISA), kgf 3 500
Specific fuel consumption
at cruise, kg/kgf hr 0.520
Fan diameter, mm 2 300
Dry weight, kg 3 200For advanced modifications of medium-haul aircraft of Tu-204 family and long-haul aircraft of IL-96 family
MOSCOW. May 10 (Interfax-AVN) – The Perm-based Aviadvigatel company is going to start developing a new generation engine for commercial aircraft in 2008, company’s Management Director and Designer General Alexander Inozemtsev said during the meeting with young specialists of the enterprise.
“Next year we expect to receive a powerful financial support of our new project – the promising family of engines for commercial aircraft,” he is quoted as saying in the press release of the company, received by Interfax-AVN on Thursday
According to him, the project is very ambitions as the end result promises to have most brilliant specifications: “If we develop the gas generator as we wish, it will be second to none in the world. The same will be the engines, which would be able to propel any aircraft – Russian, Chinese, Boeings and Airbuses,” Inozemtsev said
Our design bureau needs this money badly. However, we did not get it because of the errors with the addendum to the federal program of the Russian Federation on commercial aviation development through 2015,” he said. Nevertheless, the company managed to implement its business-plan by 92%, which is mostly a result of increased sales of power generating units
http://www.royfc.com/news/jan/3007jan02.html
The future MS-21 short and medium range airplane, which is included in the Unified Aviation Company’s ((OAK)) product line, will be created based on breakthrough technologies which have been developed at Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute, TsAGI’s director, Vladimir Kargopol’tsev, has reported to ARMS-TASS.According to him, the MS-21 is being created as a new generation airplane which will define a new level of worldwide aircraft construction. It will exceed worldwide counterparts by 15 – 20 percent in fuel effectiveness and have an increased flight speed, appreciably increased safety, and improved control system aerodynamics.
For resolution of these missions, Kargopol’tsev said, it is necessary to introduce progressive solutions for the airplane which already have been defined by Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute together with other Russian institutes, and at the present time are in development. Included is the creation of a prototype fully composite wing with a 22-meter outer wing ((KONSOL’)) span which will provide decreased fuel consumption and increased speed.
“We have advanced to three hundredths of Mach ((NA TRI SOTYE MAKHA)) in speed,” the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute director noted. This, according to him, “is a principle achievement for worldwide aviation science, inasmuch as civil airplanes already are being used at the limit of shock stall.” A number of design problems exist in this area which are connected with the beginning of supersonic regions. They are solved for military airplanes by increased engine power; however, on commercial airplanes “for which questions of economy are defining along with reliability, it is impossible to install oversized engines.” A wing from composite materials (KM) is one of the solutions to this problem, the scientist explained.
According to him, it is being proposed to equip the “Superjet-100” with a composite wing in the future. Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute now not only is testing the future regional airplane, but also is determining the possibilities of increasing its effectiveness for the future.
A composite wing is being created by Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute along with the All-Russian Institute of Aviation Materials, the Scientific Institute of Aviation Technologies, and the Obninsk Scientific Production Enterprise Tekhnologiya. Its series production may be introduced at the Voronezh Joint Stock Airplane Building Company
star49Star49
here a few data that will show you the reality of Russian civil aviation
MOSCOW, January 24 (RIA Novosti) – Russia will have to give up the production of Il-96 large-body planes for airlines with routes of up to 11,000 km (6,835 miles), the industry and energy minister said on Thursday.
so they have a good aircraft but they do not sell it
and later you say they do not use Embraer startegy or are they?
The SuperJet-100 project is a family of medium-range passenger aircraft developed by the Sukhoi design bureau in cooperation with major American and European aviation corporations, including Boeing, Snecma, Thales, Messier Dowty, Liebherr Aerospace, and Honeywell.
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080124/97649633.html
see the reality
The civil aviation program for 1992-2000 envisaged the construction of 145 Il-96-300 aircraft. However at present moment less than 20 aircraft have been built under this program. Nowday the plant has orders for 21 Il-96 type aircraft. Negotiations are under way with China, Zimbabwe, Iran and Syria.
Source: “Interfax” news agency, August 8, 2006http://www.rosprom.gov.ru/en/news.php?id=2493
so as you can see few aircraft are building
At present, the company has begun manufacturing components and units for 5 Il-96-400 aircraft that could be delivered to,, and other countries at a later date. Also, top management at aviation leasing company Ilyushin Finance Corporation are currently in talks with the Chinese airfreight company Silk Route Cargo Airlift Company Ltd. regarding the delivery of 8 Il-96-400T cargo planes. Besides the Il-96, VACO is engaged on the production
http://www.antanta-research.ru/Article.aspx?ArticleID=2071&LanguageID=1033
Eight or ten Tu-204 will be built in 2008 a very large number do not you think?
Ульяновское ЗАО “Авиастар-СП” планирует выпустить в 2008 г. до 8-10 самолетов семейства Ту-204
Sukhoi SSJ was started when Sukhoi didnot had government support. so they have to look for international risk sharing partners. Still all Design, testing, Engine is done inside Russia. Why they are not calling western suppliers for this new project? where is Embarer strategy now?. What do u think about Tu-204SM?
http://www.irkut.com/en/services/projects/
In July 2007 the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) executive committee designated the Irkut Corporation as the head contractor in the program to be implemented “jointly with the Russia’s leading design bureaus”, according to the Irkut President Oleg Demchenko.The results of the first stage (Gate 1) were considered and approved by the special UAC commission on the 14th of August 2007. The decision was taken to carry on with the project.
The МS-21 is being developed as a family of short/middle-range airliners with the passenger carrying capacity of 150-200. The airliner is due to hit the market in 2015.
In order to create the competitive product the МS-21 developers initially intend to meet the highest requirements to the aircraft operational performance and efficiency compared to the current analogues. The МS-21 production envisages wide utilization of the up-to-date materials like perspective aluminium alloys and composites. It shall feature the cutting-edge highly economical engines and the state-of-the-art avionics. As for the passangers’ comfort level the МS-21 shall surpass not only its Russian but foreign counterparts as well.
http://www.royfc.com/acft_news_old_mar3.html#17mar
Perm’ Motor Building Complex Concludes Tests of Engine for Tu-204/214 Airplanes
((The PS-90A2, a modification of the PS-90A. Cuba has ordered five of the transports with this engine.
star49Embraer is owned by Brazilian firms such as BOVESPA Previ, Sistel, Bozano Simonsen , the larger share of the company is brazilian, Embraer has some design input, limited yes but some design is made in Brazil, it is not problem to say Embraer has risks partners, Embraer has a more effective business strategy than Tupolev, why? well Embraer operates like Airbus, its aircraft are a composite of different companies.
Embarer does not have effective business strategy. If Russians were in business of assembling products based on foreign parts than they much better places to invest money. u should understand that Russian wealth like Isrealis is now Global so u have to look at Cyprus/London/Dubai etc. they are more interested in this kind of business.
http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080318/101641712.html
American oil to flow through Russian pipes
This Embarer is a JOKE if u consider it is as business. Any Russian billionaire can buy it with a personal check. Only $7.6 Market cap. Market cap reflects its ability of future earnings.
http://finance.google.com/finance?q=ERJ
Mkt Cap: 7.60B
Do you think Embraer is loosing the race? no they are not, they are also starting to build under license the parts made by other countries in Brazil, now Mitsubishi builds the wings in Brazil, at the end what is better to say i make money or i build it but i hardly make money?
Embarer is not even in the race let alone loosing it.:rolleyes: . It does not have any intellectual foundation. Just assembly line workers buit with German/japanese industrial machines. Avaiantion for Russians have different meaning not just money.
star49As usual you talk much, but you say nothing. I don’t know what you want to prove with your countless copy pastes and boldening text passages which have nothing to do with the points I speak about. My points are still standing, you failed repeately to prove your arguments and continue to twist around and wrong turn the facts.
I have clearly shown that there are 10 other experimental fighters that MIG is using for testing purpose but ur whole point is there only aircraft for AESA?which is clearly contridict Russian testing procedure and Russian official called this aircraft as MIG-35 not MIG-29M with AESA. there is a difference. Future version will be an improvement.
That interests whom? Why do you come up with things which were never close to a subject of discussion here!?
These are clearly related to subject matter when u simply dont understand generations & Capabilities. And confuse both of them all the time.
The degree of customisation depends on the IAFs requirements and on how the aircraft offered meet the specifications. If the Rafale, Gripen, F-16, F/A-18 or Eurofighter suit the requirements in their original form there is no need for customising them. Of course there might be specific requirements which are not fulfilled in their current form, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they have to change as much as MiG has to change or develope. BTW Europe has already various UAV & UCAV demonstrators and that since years… So dream on, but don’t be scarred if you wake up and face reality.
so u think IAF will accept all these aircrafts as its? let see how many years French will take to upgrade the first M2K. wanna bet on this. big difference in theory and practice.
There is poded IRST for F-18E coming 2013. i think will even demand CFTs for EF along with larger fuel tanks. there whole lot of stuff these aircraft are in need. I have seen too many failed Euro programes. what MIG is task is too develop 5th generation UCAV almost in class of real fighter capabilities with stealth not some slow moving stuff.
star49Man ambraer currently builds aricraft in the size of the A-321 and B-737 and they are selling enough, more than any Tu-204 or Il-96
Embraer sells ten E170 jets to Japan Airlines, with options for fivenews
25 June 2007
http://www.domain-b.com/aero/june/2007/20070625_embraer.htm
LOT Polish Airlines to Add 12 More EMBRAER 175 Jets
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS148461+17-Jan-2008+PRN20080117The E170 is the first aircraft of the four-member E-Jets family, and entered revenue service in Mar-04. As of 31-Dec-07, the E170/190 E-Jet family hadlogged 764 firm orders and 786 options from more than 40 customers in 25 countries on five
continents, and had surpassed 1.2 million flight hourshttp://middleeastaviation.aero/news/airline/7494/EgyptAir+purchases+six+more+E190s+from+Embraer
http://www.aircanada.com/shared/en/common/fleet/pop_fleetE175.html
They are merely assembling aircrafts from foreign parts. Embarer has practically nothig to with Brazil just like Volkswagen has nothing to do with China and Hyundai with India.
Tu-204/IL-96/Tu-334/An-124-100M is built with 100% Russian intellectual property thats why they can sell whom ever they want. Embarer cannot built larger plane without Airbus/Boeing.
star49There is no hole in my argumentation. I never said they wouldn’t test any technology in any other aircraft. But there is still a difference in testing a single technology and testing the aircraft as a whole. Not all has been tested so far, at least there are no indications that the new aerodynamic configuration has been tested so far, posting the same articles again and again won’t change that simple fact. The radar was first fitted to the MiG-35 demonstrator, so where is your prove!!!??? BTW the MiG-35 demonstrator is not primarily for airshows but for testing the new avionics proposed for the MiG-35.
what are the job of those 10 experimental aircraft? that ur including airshow aircrafts. see the positive experiance of integrating third party systems.
http://www.royfc.com/news/aug/1707aug01.html
A PERFECT DESIGN PLUS NEW ELECTRONICSThe MiG-35 maximum takeoff weight in comparison with the MiG-29 has grown by 30 percent and reached 23.5 tonnes. In fact, it has gone from the lightweight class to the medium. For maintenance of some and improvement of other performance, a number of improvements have been introduced into the design. For example, the wing’s lift properties have been improved and the reliability of construction increased
At the same time, if a foreign customer wishes, systems and weapons of foreign firms will be integrated onto the MiG-35. A corresponding positive experience has been accumulated within the framework of the MiG-29K/KUB for a number of other projects too.
here is the classification for TWO “++”
http://www.royfc.com/news/sep/1207sep06.html
According to the classification adopted in Russia, the MiG-29 is a fourth generation fighter. The upgraded MiG-29M is generation 4+. At the beginning of 2012, mass production of the fifth generation fighter was supposed to be started. However, work is going slower than had been expected. Today the time for start of production is being names as closer to 2020. Therefore, so-called transitional models have begun to appear in recent years. This includes the MiG-35 which belongs to the “4 with two plusses” generation
No single, but all together:p Who say Eurofighter has to develope an all new aircraft for India? The only one who says that is you, but no one else. If Eurofighter would have to do so, they wouldn’t offer the type to India. Once more you show your ignorance and the fact that you haven’t the slightest clue of what you are talking about.
Every of the MRCA competitor has too develop customzied planes. & that includes F-16IN/GripenNG etc. EF is no exception. u have to basically recertify the whole aircraft along with developing and intergrating third party systems. this may take any where from 10 to 20 years to complete. MIG will be in UCAV business by than.
star49I´m starting to understand Scorpion82…
So, a carrier capable machine (Fulcrum “K”) with all the structural changes that the function entails his 100% “uniform” with a land based prototype (Fulcrum “M2”) who happens to be 100% “uniform” with an aircraft (Mig-35) that only exists in a plastic model “form” with some VERY OBVIOUS (MAKS 2007) structural changes and new systems (like a AESA radar)!!!!!
If someone belonging to Mig or Sokol has been sending that kind of absurd press releases after MAKS2007, that guy must be smoking some strange stuff…
Read & understand. they are using 10 experimental aircraft for testing various technologies . It put a big hole in Scorpion theory that only airshow demonstrator is aircraft with AESA because one another one is TVC. I am sure they will be testing the wing on another prototype to be proposed for ultimate MIG-35
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=66667&page=2&highlight=mig-35
New outlook of the famous MIGThe corporation has set up a modern product range. With a new MiG-35 fighter RAC MIG has formed up a prospect product range to meet the market demand in the nearest and upcoming future.
This product range has been named as the “unified multifunctional combat aircraft family”. It includes MiG-29K/KUB shipborne fighter, MiG-29M/M2 and MiG-35 front-line fighters. Each of the above mentioned 4++ generation aircraft have been designed in a single and double-seat versions. Nowadays the serial production of MiG-29K/KUB has been started to fulfill the Indian Navy order for the Vikramaditya aircraft carrier.
The RAC MIG designers have been talking about three stages of the aircraft family unification. First of all, this is inside family unification between MiG-29K/KUB, MiG-29M/ M2 and MiG-35. All the fighters have the similar airframe, propulsion system as well as main aboard systems. All of them have been equipped with the digital fly-by-wire system with four-fold redundancy. All the aircraft have been covered by the united after-sales support system and will be facing the similar upgrade packages.
Second, the designers have succeeded the high-level of unification among the single-seat and double-seat aircraft. As for the construction elements, aboard equipment and weaponry, it comes to 100%. All the fighters use the unified cockpit canopy with an extra fuel-tank installation aboard the single-seater.
Third, RAC MIG is going to present a range of proposals to extend the unification level of the new fighters with the MiG-29 previous variants.
As for the avionics, the new MiGs have been changed dramatically in comparison with MiG-29 but the aircraft outlook has not been change a lot. Besides, several combat technical characteristics of the fighter have been radically changed also. For example, the aircraft external payload overcomes 6 ton, while the amount of the payload points was extended by 4in comparison with MiG-29. The fuel stock was extended by almost 50% to increase the aircraft range substantially. The new aircraft also enjoys the in-flight fueling system.
According to the RAC MIG regional director in India Mikhail Globenko, the main attention over MiG-29K and MiG-35 development has been paid to the aircraft reliability and serviceability. The flight hour cost of MiG-35 and MiG-29K in comparison with MiG-29 early versions has been decreased in almost 2.5 times.
Some parts of the new family fighters’ avionics has reached the 5th generation aircraft level. The share of such components has been increased over the latest modifications. While MiG-29K/KUB and MiG-29M/M2 has been equipped with Zhuk slot-array antenna radar, the MiG-35 has become the first non-US fighter to be equipped with the active phased-array antenna radar (AESA). This radar has been designated Zhuk-AE and is the further development of the Phazotron-NIIR Kopyo and Zhuk family.
It should be mentioned that the MIG designers have a long-standing experience with electronic scanning employment as the first world fighter with such type of radar, namely MiG-31 went into serial production in 1979.
Besides the APhAR the new generation technologies have been employed within the passive electro-optical systems, first installed aboard the MiG-29K/KUB with a further development aboard MiG-35. Such technologies have been used initially aboard the Russian space equipment.
According to the RAC MIG the unified fighters weaponry will integrate the latest Russian technological developments, which has never been previously exported. Besides, MiG-35 could be adopted for the non-Russian aboard equipment and weaponry installation.
In the frame of the unified fighters family development RAC MIG has set up experimental aircraft for the prospect technologies testing. In the last years up to 10 experimental aircraft have been employed. Aboard one of them, namely MiG-29M OVT, all-aspect nozzle deflection technology has been tested to reach super-maneuverability. The thrust-vectoring engines installation is optional for the MiG-35 customers.
Nowadays, the new generation family fighters are in serial production with the aircraft earlier versions, for example MiG-29SMT. But according to the RAC MIG experts in future all the MiGs will be produced as the unified family members. The family itself is just at the initial stage of its life cycle and will be improved over a long-time with its avionics and weaponry capabilities. RAC MIG is going to offer its customers the new upgrade packages to bring the previously built aircraft close to the MiG-29K or MiG-35 capabilities.
According to the RAC MIG the MiG-35 will be demanded initially by the states to renew the existing fleet of MiGs. It will be supported by the active marketing policy including trade-in contracts as well as technology transfer, license production and further cooperation with the local industry.
But not half as good has the one you are having for yourself! “EF is atleast 20 years away before it can be presented to IAF”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That´s 2028… WOW:rolleyes:Star, you´re wrong, get over it.
Not a single statement of mine is wrong. MIG-35 atleast exist in ultimate technologies. IAF EF is non-existence even in concept form. Complete, avionics, weopons along with engines has to be recertified for EF. Consider the complexity and cost involved it will take alteast 20 years of negotiation to create export EF for IAF.
star49YF-22 First Flight – 1990
F-22 First Flight – 1997
F/A-22 IOC – 2006US had none of the workforce, technical lag, money, lack of production technology,etc issues that Russia is and will have to deal with for the PAK-FA. That is not to say that the US had no problems in the F-22 development program.
Yet, if people want to believe that Russia will buck the historical trend and pop out an operational fighter within a couple of years of its first flight, that’s fine. If people want to believe that Russia can pop out its first real stealth aircraft with its first real production AESA radar and immediately occupy the top slot in the fighter pantheon, then that’s fine too. Life’s of disappointments though…
MIG-29 First flight 1977
Enry 1984.
Su-27 First flight 1981
Entry 1985.
Can some one else built that kind of fighters under communist conditions?
And Industrial machinery & computing power now available is 100 times better what was in 1990s. how else could have Chinese mass production without importing that machinery from Germany/Japan.
star49Almost is not the same as is! The MiG-35 model presented on MAKS clearly shows there are differences, therefore there is no 100% commonality between the MiG-29K and the MiG-35. Quoting outdated sources won’t change the facts given. And your unprecedented level of ignorance won’t change it either!
how is those outdated. check the dates on them. ur putting ur own interpretation.
Again complete BS. Who says the Indians will require Israeli equipment and the like when the systems delivered aboard the Typhoon meet the requirements? Have you defined the IAFs MMRCA requirements? I doubt so! The AESA radar is missing in current production Typhoon’s but a demonstrator is already available and according industry sources a productionised model of the CAESAR could be available around 2011! That perfectly meets the IAFs schedules. Zhuk-MAE is no way more developed or mature than CAESAR and you still failed to prove that Zhuk-MAE was tested aboard another flying testbed before the actual MiG-35 demonstrator!
French are also very good in EW suite having built ICMS-3/Spectra. ever thought why it is not going into MKI/MIG-29K/M2K/MIG-29SMT. ur still not comprehending.
Lol that is one of the most stupid arguments I ever read, but it’s you me wonders nothing. Fixed prices as for the Gorshkov or Su-30MKI…:rolleyes:
It were fixed prices with low inflation index that why they run into trouble.
star49Historically, it has usually taken about 10 yrs for a plane to go from first flight to IOC and another 2-3 for FOC. If the PAK-FA has a first flight next year, then IOC/FOC is around 2022 time frame. By which time the Raptor would be already on its way to MLU/SLEP phase.
Also, Indian AF acquisition guy is on record saying that the IAF doesn’t expect the PAK-FA in the IAF for at least 15 yrs or so.
I think u should wake up. it is not MIG-29/Su-27 era when Russians were not using supercomputers/digital technologies/flight simulators. Aircraft delivery schedule starts from 2011 to Ruaf.
Direct Machinery import from Japan/Germany & training even for manufacturing. This things were simply not present in the past. So design to manufacture to flight testing will be pretty fast.
http://www.npo-saturn.ru/!new/
Equipment is delivered within the framework of fourth transha of Japanese credit. Investment agreement s “Sumitomo Corporation” for the sum of more than 500 million dollars with period up to 2015 JOINT STOCK COMPANY OF “NPO” Saturn “concluded in 2003 for the realization of major national projects in the field of power machine building.Saturn “Sergey chuklinova,” it is significant according to the chairman of the council of the directors OF JOINT STOCK COMPANY “NPO”, that the modernization of the second production area NPO “Saturn” began from the largest in Eurasia equipment of this class of company “Mitsubishi” for the 5- coordinate the processing of large-dimension details. The machine tools of this class into Russia were not delivered. It is important to emphasize not only the uniqueness of this equipment, but also the presence on “Saturn” of programs and projects, which make it possible to realize its technological possibilities, or the presence of professionals, who already possess the habits of working the most complex articles. It can be, today not all can completely estimate the competitive advantages of this equipment, the technological progress achieved by us. Time will arrive, and our engines will confirm this “.
JOINT STOCK COMPANY OF “NPO” Saturn “last years actively realizes the policy of the technological modernization of production. Only in 2007 JOINT STOCK COMPANY OF “NPO” Saturn “acquired more than 40 units of highly technological equipment, which does not have analogs in Russia. From the local modernization it is shop enterprise it passed during the phase of the construction of the complex integrated production of gas-turbine technology with the total change of production structure and a universal increase in the qualification of specialists. More than 300 workers of all levels in recent years passed instruction in Japan, Switzerland, Germany.
star49There´s no comparison between the Venezuelan SU-30MK2 deal and the Indian MIG-35. The Venezuelan´s bought an aircraft that was developed a decade ago and has been delivered in great quantities to China, on the other hand the Mig-35 that was proposed to the MRCA contest, with it´s way heavier “clean weight” and profound alterations in the airframe, it´s a vastly diferent bird to any and every “Fulcrum” variant that has taken to the sky´s until now, and that includes the “K”, the “SMT”, the “M”, whatever.
Scorpion82 his correct when he say´s that there is no Production Mig-35 right now, and Scooter his completly correct when he say´s that the Eurofighter Consortium would delay the deliveries to the the four partner´s IF the Indian contest was dependent of this (actually, the British MOD would make a huge party if they could postpone the Tiffie deliveries a pair of years).Cheers 🙂
when MIG & now Sokol factory is saying that there is 100% uniformity among K/M/35 so what is meant by that 100%? or should they say 200%? so either Scorpian is correct or MIG is correct.
And current EF will be unacceptable to IAF from what i see. It needs fully developed AESA with Air to ground missiles and needs its own missiles with full technology transfer like meteor. & it needs fully open avionics suit so other components like Israeli/Indian EW suit and weopons can be certified. than it needs licensing of engines.
EF is atleast 20 years away before it can be presented to IAF. I doubt Russians are not that stupid they will sign fixed price & without inflation indexed contracts.
star49Personally, I doubt very much the Indian Goverment nor its Military would agree with you………:eek:
They very much agree. they accepted price increase for Gorskhov/MKI projects.
just the other day Irkut (One of most successful firm ) pulled out from MTA project and the other partner ILyushin cannot find people to finish the project. situation is so hopeless. building a 20 Ton transport for $600M (looks like a joke) when Sukhoi on SSJ cost over $2B and that in past not in future. Irkut is now only concentrating on MS-21. Do u think Russian engineers so worthless to pursue this kind of projects in 21st century.
http://www.royfc.com/acft_news_old_mar2.html#14mar
Irkut Abandoning the MTA
The Il’yushin general director, Viktor Livanov, has said that the company is able to realized the project on its own. But there are not enough people for Il’yushin for it, the aircraft industry enterprise’s manager thinks: Irkut has pulled out of the project, having realized its hopelessness.The MS-21 project has a potentially large market demand and is better financed, AviaPort agency expert Oleg Panteleev explains Irkut’s decision: 1.6 billion rubles already has been allocated for the concept design alone.
Source: 14.03.08, Vedomosti, Correspondent: Aleksey Nikol’skiy
star49man read more about Sukhoi and what are Russia`s needs, in my familiy we have russians and they live in latin america because the situation in Russia is so bad, they think Latin america is better than Russia.
these are individual opinions. some may say Dubai/london are even better. but it has nothing to do with the topic or government resources to execute such things.
Brazil is developing a nuclear reactor for a submarine and they have already developed one with the basic features they want, it is called the IPEN/MB-01, it is a research reactor true but is the basic system for a nuclear submarine and was made by Brazilian scientists
Este pequeno reator de pesquisas, denominado IPEN/MB-01, foi totalmente projetado e construído por brasileiros, sendo um grande feito da engenharia nacional à época.
http://www.defesanet.com.br/marinha/nuclear_sub.htm
http://www.ipen.br/sitio/?idm=248
A filosofia que norteou o projeto do reator IPEN/MB-01, foi no sentido de se projetar e testar um núcleo típico para uso em propulsão naval
It says the philosophy behind the nuclear reactor IPEN/MB-01 was to research a typical nuclear reactor for naval use (submarines or Ships)
It is better to make money and sell more aircraft than simply have the design capability but no market like happens with Tupolev and Illyushin, true they will recover and in fact Russia and Brazil understand they need each other, why? simply because Russia and Brazil are emerging nations that understand they need to develop their economic and technological ties, in fact Russia is helping Brazil for example the E-170 series was tested in Russia, its aerodynamics were refined in Russia, in fact the Superjet and E-170 are so similar because they have a common aerodynamic Russian design, nobody denies that however it does not mean Embraer is not sucessful it is a very sucessful company and the fourth largets maker of civilian aircraft in the world
If Embarer is so succesful why not it make larger plane like Airbus/Boeing. it has pretty much access to same supplier base. think over it. E-170 is clearly inferior product to Sukhoi SSJ but sales does not soley depends on product characteristics.
star49To be honest Russia’s ability to deliver the Mig-35 on budget and on-time has to be suspect at best! Especially, after the last few Military Projects for India. On the otherhand most of the other candidate are basically turn key and ready to go! As a matter of fact I wouldn’t be surprised to see some Manufactures offer aircraft off the current production runs. Thereby giving India aircraft today! 😀 Not years down the road……….Clearly, a offer Russia could not provide with the Mig-35! I doubt the Typhoon Partners for example. Wouldn’t mind a slight delay in delivery’s to winner such a large export order. The same could be said for the other partners! Really, a big advantage when you think about it! 😎
Pretty inaccurate observation. Most of contracts are delayed because Russians have drop down in priority interest because those were signed during low cost times. when u signed it under market rates delivery is pretty fast. look at Venzuela.
i will give Dassualt minimum 10 years time to upgrade IAF M2K. And that does not include engine upgrade or payload increase through which MIG-29SMT has to go through. Most Western manufacturer hasnt haved faced that reality. In the long run it is just money losing proposition.
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