Back in mid 90s US had a huge surplus, but did that money get diverted to defence R&D?:)

US had surplus only in 1999-2000 and that Clinton used to pay some of the $6trillion debt at that time. which is not case of Russia. All money is freely available for investments. Government debt is important indicator along with interest payments.

We have heard so much about Russian 5th gen fighter’s flight in past…quoting high ranking officials…that it’d make its first flight in 2006 or so? Where is it? Why so much delay?

Requirements changes with Time and Money. Now they can afford much better 5 th generation fighter. they are already calling the engine 5+.

Compare its defence spending and defence-related R&D funding with US. Does it come close?

U are assuming that money spent of state corporation has same power as private corporation.

Obsolete in what sense? It is more modern than anything they operate currently. It is also better than anything china can offer. If russia is willing to sell Su-30 why not Su-35? It would be ideal to replace the F-14’s. Add a few Mig-29M/35’s and you have a pretty decent high low mixture. Additional F-5 supplement or JF-17’s can make up numbers.

ur not getting the point. Su-30MK is good strike fighter but Iran needs some thing better than this to spend money on it as it is facing (F-15/F-16 with AWACS) and soon EF.
Su-35/Su-34 has longer legs, better radar and weopon stations can take heavier weopons. 3000L/ 2500L fuel tanks is big advantage. Su-34 is even more suitable because of its low flight characteristic in desert environment and its EW system claimed to be immnune from missile attacks.

Countries that can afford to AND are in the West’s good graces will buy from the West. But if not, there is always China.

Instead of grandstanding on and on about the “West”, it’s not Holland, Germany or Sweden selling these superb aircraft. It’s mainly the US, France and to a lesser extent, the UK.

It is not US/UK/France/Russia that are the real Industrial powers but Germany. Germany is world largest Expoter (1.5 trillion) and most of it is the very high end industrial machinery without it AIRBUS and BOEING cannot survive nor does the engine makers. Saturn specialist are trained in Germany. Su-34 is built with German machinery.It is the top part of the industrial chain. and this goes into FAB equipment for making microprocessorss. There is infenon behind IPOD. Certain things are just not visible or not for sale in retail store.

Its a project worth mere 1 billion dollars. Its definitely not a mega project, but more of a medium scale one. Yet how long has Russia been delaying it? Ever wondered why? Compare that with the delivery of Tor-M1???

It took 15 years for Russia to build Nuclear plant in China. Mismanagement and transition to capatilist sytem does it have effect on projects. and Russia still needs arabs for couple of years more for regulating oil supply in OPEC. that critical point hasnt come yet interms of supply and demand.

I didn’t say it wasn’t possible. I just find the whole thing odd especially the Russians helping the competition with selling their fighters. The Pakistan JF-17 deal is a whole different animal since India is Russia’s ally and they don’t normally sell to the smaller shrimps in the sea who fought against them into a huge geo-political defeat, i.e. Afghanistan. And if China did export J-10s, it would mean China’s next generation J-10 or J-XX is about to be introduced. I don’t think they’re at that point yet

Russia invasion of Afghanistan is the biggest Geopolitical victory afte WWII. It prevented spread of radical islam into Soviet republics . It was a premptive war that they decisively won. Now West has to deal with this Monster.
and Iran would be stupid to waste money on J-10 kind a fighter. what they need is Su-35 or Su-34 class fighter. Both have AWACS class radar with long range. Armed them with Airlunched Club or Brahmos type weopon and than u have virtually every target in middleast without airrefuelling. the most damage to oil fields and pipelines.

Military sales are an absolutely pittance compared to civilian deals. Iran’s military deals with China are a billion dollars every two years or so. Iran’s bilateral trade with China is around $9b.

Look at it this way: the largest military sales between nations were those from Russia to China between 1995 and 2003. But Russia’s military sales to China at its height was around $3 billion dollars a year.

The US exports $50 billions a year in civilian goods to China. Let’s not mention the trade going from China to the US. Who has the preponderance of influence over China? The US by wide margin

Military sales are the key indication of Strategic relationship between countries no matter how small they are compared to civillian side. Turkish-Russia trade is over $40b with Turkish companies have the largest contruction projects and most workers inside Russia but Turkey is not a Strategic partner but Iran is. Similar is the case of Germany vs Serbia.

Japan cant built 5th generation fighter by itself for technical and financial reasons.

Looks like a Kh-29 TV guided AGM. Internal fuel load was given with 5200 kg for the modified MiG-29K, as the new MiG-35 is based on this aircraft I assume it should be equal. I think an empty weight of ~11500 kg should be the lowest figure.

24,500kg MTOW of MIG-29K. less 5500KG weopon and 5200KG of fuel. It comes around 14,300kg empty weight. or 18500kg NTOW less 5200KG fuel and basic air to air of 800 kg. Comes around 12, 500KG.
http://www.migavia.ru/eng/military_e/MiG_29_K_KUB_e.htm
MIG-35 will have longer range and capacites.

2.5 times lower that a big difference.

http://www.migavia.ru/eng/military_e/MiG_35_e.htm
the MiG-35 aircraft flight hour cost is almost 2.5 times lower than those of the MiG-29 fighter;
– the MiG-35 aircraft is intended for the on-condition maintenance

MIG has plenty of time for upgrades the way MRCA is going and by India signing for Russian 5Th generation project. It will be difficult for western companies to give TOT as these can be applied to that project.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/05/01/213591/military-engines-russia.html
In April last year Klimov announced that it had begun design of a new engine for the LFI next-generation lightweight fighter being developed by MiG. Although MiG has yet to define all of its requirements for the engine, Klimov has said it will be an upgrade of the RD-33 with 25,300lb thrust, vectoring nozzle and modular design

As has been said here numerable times, this is what happens when you take a 20 year old ship that has spent half its life as a hulk in one of the harshest environments on earth, overseen by corrupt officials and then try and give it a complete reconstruction to fulfill a role it was never designed for. This extravagant exercise in recycling was always going to be a black hole for both time and money and so it is proving to be. I can see in years to come this will be used as a text book example of a bad procurement in War Studies courses at Indian universities.

I think u havent taken into account the tremendous Wage growth, Currency appreciation and inflation that is happening in Russia in past couple of years which is continuing into the future.. I am not saying it will explaing 300% price increase but play a big part in it.

I’m saying both. One, I don’t know how you can say it is a 5th generation SRAAM when the program just got launched, who knows how good it’s going to turn out to be. And second, Iris-t is the one that is mentionned in connection with Pakistan recently. But my main point is still that as of recent times, Darter is not the SRAAM talked about for JF-17, outside of Chinese AAMs, Iris-t is.

why should be SA less competent than Israel or for that matter French MBDA? think over it.

even if you get a couple of used missiles, there is still quite a way to go and parts that Pakistan previously might not have the capability to produce. For example, a small turbojet engine needed for the missile. And knowing the military cooperation between the two countries (including the sale of C-802 cruise missile to Pakistan), you have quite the precedence.

there can be Ukranain connection for engines just like Tank.

http://disarmament.un.org/UN_REGISTER.nsf
no indication of any export to Pakistan listed here.
So, we are down to whether or not it’s inspired. Again, we come back to China having things that already have been in service for years compared to South Africa with one thing in development and another just have flight tested.

this is pretty much useless.

you expect to me accept that a missile program that just got launched this year to be as good as Iris-t or AIM-9X? For all I know, it might end up with the fate of Rooivalk (the other Denel project that all internet warriors seem to be excited about) Other than this mysterious U-Darter missile, what else is Pakistan using (not speculating, using right now)? Is any of SA’s LACMs in service?

Is any Chinese indigenous stuff in service except for that Isreali Python copies. that in turn would be a product of russian immigrants.

China has high requirements, our rejected projects are not necessarily bad.

thats why it is flying MIG-19/MIG-21/Tu-16 for 50 years.

aren’t you the same kid who was trying to get on my case on DT or SDF about my insistence that J-10 is much better than JF-17 and plaaf might not put an order for the plane? bitter huh.

As for this stuff about JF-17 getting best avionics, that’s a totally ignorant thing to say. If you have no idea the difference in the performance of the J-10’s radar + avionics in general vs JF-17, then go read it up. First batch? That’s the first 50 (read it, 50). And after that, China will just offer something which will match whatever requirements PAF has and be cheaper than anything else PAF can get its hands on. As for J-10 with PAF, I’ve stated exactly on PDF what PAF is interested in. And yes, China rejects plenty of requests, it does not sell its best stuff. There are many things off the limit. If you want to see what’s going to happen with J-10, look at the entire J-8F/Iran Fiasco. And if you don’t know what happened in that case, go search it up.

J-8/Iran?. why would be Iran interested in a jet that is worse than Phantom. the rest is just speculation.