A year or so ago someone French told me on this forum that Dassault had quite a few staff cross trained on assembling Falcon (I presume) and Rafale, so increasing the assembly rate was not so difficult. I understand that the current line is operating below capacity as it is, so perhaps they can increase the rate fairly easily (component supply allowing) to assemble 18 extra aircraft 2012-2015.
The Rafale line output is putting out Rafales at the very minimum number to still be profitable. It could be increased easily, and actually there is nothing that Dassault would want more to make the line more profitable.
Nic
The wing is pointed and has a sawtooth edge with a rail or missile inside of the wingtip. The second pic is clearly a Gripen, the first doesn’t look like it is IMO.
The canard on the Rafale is more pointy, and the tail part after the wing is more square and shorter on the Rafale. So it’s definately a Gripen.
Nic
Well it’s definately a Gripen in the first pic. Not a Rafale and definately not a kfir either (no wingtip rails on the kfir).
Nic
@ EELightning, where does Litening 3 go on your first pic? Minus 1 paveway, I presume.
It goes on the centerline hardpoint.
Nic
it could be argued that the Mirage 2000 line HAD to be shut down in order to sell Rafales.. other wise India would’ve eventually bought it and no MMRCA 😮
Who would have paid to keep it open? India?
The goal of a fighter is to defend your country, not to be sold abroad. It’s a bonus if it sells because it helps lower the cost and fund further development at the company, but more and more every time you sell a fighter you need to sell your know how with it, so I’m wondering whether it’s any benefit except for the politicians who get retrocommissions.
Nic
Nothing to be sniffed at indeed, but still not comparable to the Rafale 😉
Btw, about the Storm Shadow thingy. How many A/A missiles would you be able to carry again? See the trade-offs with both fighters now? 😉
The typhoon can carry 2 more AtoA missiles. Big deal, esp when it comes to AtoG.
The Rafale can carry 6 AtoA missiles even with 2 storm shadows and 6000L of external fuel, or 3 storm shadows and 4000L of external fuel.
Besides the Rafale is already CFT ready, while the Typhoon still isn’t AFAIK.
Yes, because the Typhoon will never be capable of delivering cruise missiles nor ever be multi-role… *sigh*
Okay…
Take 1 Rafale and 1 Typhoon
Add 2 storm shadows
Add as much external fuel as you can
Compute range
Decide which fighter you want
Thank you,
Nic
If cruise missile strike is important for MRCA, then the Rafale should win it hands down.
Nic
I understand that Dassault needs to charge extra to recover development costs financed by themselves. Airbus and Boeing do that. I believe before launching development of an aircraft they estimate costs and spread those costs over a number of aircraft and increase the price accordingly on that number of aircraft. Let’s say 500 to break even for A320 and 1000 for 787.
In the case of retrieving their own development costs, I wonder what number of frames Dassault is basing that on. Let’s say 400 frames (sales to French forces + exports). They must be retrieving development costs from their launch customer with each aircraft built so I don’t understand the need to treat export customers differently to the French state in terms of recovering their own development costs (25% of total). I can understand Dassault having to charge extra on each export sale to pay something to the French government since the French government paid 75% of Rafale development costs.
I’m not an accountant but I hope you see what I am saying.
The problem is that the french gvt already paid the contracted share of the development cost, so Dassault has to get it’s share back on the export aircrafts alone. It can’t share them again on the french planes.
Nic
Indians don’t use link 16. Both aircraft have to be updated with Indias own ODL data link.
Well I should hope that they’ll be able to share target coordinates in the same way as with link 16, so that would work the same.
Nic
It just wouldn’t make sense to use EF as a striker when they got Su-30 for just that.
No they should use Rafales for strike, with Su-30 making use of their big AESA radars to escort them and link-16 incoming interceptors to the Rafales so they can make good use of their Meteor missiles :diablo:
Any fighter approaching within 50 or 60 km of the attacking Rafales would be toast 😮
Nic
What does France pay per airframe? Less than the equivalent of $75 million per frame I think. I cannot understand how $9 billion for 60 frames + extras (training, ancilliary equipment etc) would not give Dassault a much, much higher profit than supplying 60 frames to AdA for less than $4 billion.
I do appreciate, though, that if production rate is 1 Rafale per month, an order for an extra 60 would require a considerable ramp up in production which may increase costs to Dassault. Even if all deliveries to French forces were stopped for 5 years, UAE would not want delivery at a rate of 1 Rafale per month.
If it’s true that the UAE proposed 7 billion for the 60 fighters, then it’s goes 117 million per airframe, which is ridiculously low if you count the whole deal with support for many years, infrastructures and all.
Keep in mind that in addition to the price the french pay there was 75% of the development price, and that Dassault financed 25% of the cost of development which it still has to recoup with export sales. It can’t accept to sell for less that what they sell to the AdlA, or MN, knowing that those actually financed 75% of the development.
If the UAE don’t want to shell the money, then let’s just let them buy more block 60. But if they want the best multirole fighter in service at the moment, then be prepared to pay the price.
Remember the UAE deal, where the manufacturer of the Leclerc tank actually lost money on the deal. There is absolutely no reason to sell off our highest technologies if there’s no profit to be made.
Nic
Would it be a stretch to imagine that the french air force refused to be escorted by growlers to avoid being close to them when they used spectra?
I sure hope they didn’t use SPECTRA’s full tricks when anyone was closeby watching 🙁
Nic