Originally posted by TTP
Keltic,

Your trying too hard! I can understand your desire to have England join the EU, but I defininately understand their reluctance as well. From an American perspective, a Huge part of our culture, laws, and institutions are derived directly from the British,

Yes, that´s obvious, but the imput from other european communities alltogher with idian-mexican-arab…and so on was decisive. Usually colonies at the time get things from metropolis. but I am not sure if this happens in the same round, since metropolis are usually too arrogant to accept anything. In the case of the UK and the US I wonder why the british strive to keep their indentity away from other european countries, when the cultural influence, I would say the US cultural invasion is really affecting UK traditions. As far as the UK in the EU, of course I find it would be good for them to go on with the integration (something which will continue) but wheater they are in or out it´s really irrelevant for the 24 countries which are for the integration. So it´s their choice. Personally, I respect it, but want them in. As far as defense its concerned, Europe until now is too weak becuase we don´t want to spend a single cent on defense, because the US big brother has been doing things for us. But many times, it has been proved that the US interests don´t correspond with the European ones, and we need a strong Euroforce. I feel that traditionally the US has been using the UK to avert this attempts (and now our disgraceful president Aznar)

Originally posted by ageorge
[. What I disagree is about not acknowleging that we share lots of points in common, with some small differences.

The thing is we share more in common with the US than we do with the EU , war has raged back and forth Mainland Europe for the past century whilst the UK has sent forces to help countries in need , the only true ally we have had all through the century has been the USA [/B][/QUOTE]

But in general terms we could consider american culture, based on Europe, european traditions and melting pot of many europeans. Amalgamating europeans……in the EU would bring at the end….an europe like the US?……surprising concept.

I understand that people are suspicious about the EU, but sometimes in the UK people mix the political aspect of Europe and Europe as a cultural, geographical and social concept. Of course a French and a British are different, but all the europeans countries form a distinctive identity against an African, Asian, South American…and so on. I think that´s pretty obvious. I suppose feeling different depends on whom we compare to in this world. I do respect the UK wants to leave the EU, it´s your problem. The EU will go on, whatever the UK wants it or not….and from today a huge entlargement has happended. What I disagree is about not acknowleging that we share lots of points in common, with some small differences.

Originally posted by ageorge
. We have more in common with the USA than we do with any European country .

Probably the problem is that the people should care a bit more to learn their neighbours, then the would realize that the British are more different to the americans, than a an apple to a green cow. 🙂

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ageorge
[B]

Originally posted by mongu
Ah, but there you have yet another issue. Most of Europe has emerged from dictatorship and oppression in the last 50 years – Spain, Germany, France, Austria, Italy, Benelux, all the new members…

But the UK hasn’t.

That’s a damn good point Mongu !!

And even in that point the UK fought for democracy in the european soil, sharing the same fate. One more thing to unite us.

Originally posted by ageorge
I’ve never heard of any kind of comparison between us Scots and any Spaniards , there are still people who speak Gaelic and some of our TV programming is still broadcast in Gaelic , the English still speak English though – although we need subtitles as they all have mad accents !!!

To start with our national musical instrument is the windpipe, and the music sound quite alike yours.

Originally posted by Snapper
And the celt argument doesn’t hold sway Keltic. My wife is a Breton. She is nothing like any of my Welsh or Scottish friends, nor the Basques I have spoken with. ?

Not the North of Spain but the Northwest, Galicia where I live. You would wonder how similar we are to the Scottish. Nobody has heard in the UK, because unfortunately most Britons prefer SSS (sun, sex, sea) and don´t mind other different parts of the country. About ditatorship, Europe is not only ditatorship, and the UK has had also black episodes in your history. In fact democracy was invented (or at least the germ of it) in the Greek “polis”. In any case, I don´t think living in a ditatorship in the twentieth century and for a short period had anything with identity.

Originally posted by mongu
Keltic, the UK is a net contributor to the EU budget. Ireland is a net beneficiary of it! The situation is 180 degrees.

Spain is like Ireland – it gets more than it puts in, like most of the Mediterranean countries.

Of course these countries are going to be less eurosceptical than the countries that contribute more – Germany and the UK have higher levels of euroscepticism than say, Spain and Ireland.

Yes, that´s obvious, but I didn´t mean that. Spain will be a contributor when the new countries will enter, and the Spanish people love the EU for other reasons. Common people are not really aware of that point. It´s a question of being isolated by Europe, with a ditatorship for years and our desire to be treated as other european countries. I don´t want to reduce that to a question of national egoism with money. What I meant is that……..would all the European economies be as they are without the EU?.