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IndianaTony

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March 5, 2002 at 2:29 am in reply to: It appears to be official policy now #2113244

IndianaTony
Participant

Posted to keep this topic fresh

This is supposed to be the leading forum for matters related to warbirds, and so far, there is only one post in reply, to a very very serious topic.

Do the sacrifices made, not matter enough to people on this board to comment, or suggest ways the powers-that-be might be approached, or is everyone just interested in looking at pictures of old aircraft?

A word to the wise. The reason you can go to airshows, and look at some of the wonderful aircraft flying, is the sacrifice made by young men, flying the same machines we enjoy today.

I think it is the least we can do, to register some form of protest at what this government is doing, or lack of?

Come on, if you care lets see some support and suggestions, about bringing this dreadful treatment of our heroes into the public eye

Tony

March 3, 2002 at 7:28 pm in reply to: It appears to be official policy now #2113345

IndianaTony
Participant

The complete text

Hundreds of British airmen missing since the Second World War have been condemned to remain in unmarked graves on the continent under a secret agreement drawn up by the Government.

Homeground can disclose that under a memorandum of understanding, countries like Holland have been asked to stop excavating wrecked aircraft to recover their crews.

Since 1960, the Royal Netherlands Air Force has been digging up planes downed during raids on Occupied Europe.

Last summer five men who died when their Lancaster plunged into a farmhouse east of Amsterdam were recovered at a cost of £150,000. The BBC was given unprecedented access to the operation. But, the programme reveals, they may be among the last to be given official funerals in a Commonwealth War Graves cemetery.

Under the secret deal with the Dutch Government, nearly 200 planes and their crews will be left undisturbed unless they are threatened by development, they present an environmental hazard or there is an official request from relatives to exhume them. Pressure groups like the Amsterdam based Missing Airmen’s Memorial Foundation say the decision amounts to betrayal of our war dead.

Founder Christal Boogmans tells the programme: “We heard after fifty years we should forget. I don’t think that’s good. Letters have been written tot he British Government and there has been no official reply about it. You get the statement but never why. It is a decision made and we can’t understand that. We think it is disgusting. How can you forget all these men?”

Hundreds of RAF planes were lost over Holland, many – like J for Johnnie – being embedded up to six metres below the surface. German forces refused to retrieve the remains of their crews – and many were difficult to reach with the digging and pumping equipment available at the end of the war. Privately, many Dutch servicemen are bewildered by the deal. Salvage teams have been excavating up to six wartime crash sites a year for 40 years.

Maj Robert De Jong, who was the senior officer during the excavation of Lancaster J for Johnnie, says: “There was a political decision made on governmental level that we should see all the crash sites as field graves and respect them as such.

“So what we do now is only excavate an aircraft the moment it poses a danger to its environment which is the case here.

“The next of kin in this case are lucky because the know everything possible is being done to bring them back home but on the other hand the military is an instrument of the politicians and we have to follow those rules.”

In contrast to Britain’s stance, not one American airman is known to be buried in an unmarked grave – all the personnel in US planes have been returned to America for burial.

February 28, 2002 at 11:57 pm in reply to: One for Lancman #2113575

IndianaTony
Participant

RE: And a Ground-to-Air shot

I like the big cheesy grins the flight crew are wearing :0)

February 28, 2002 at 10:18 pm in reply to: What WW2 story would you like to see filmed today? (2002 Zombie) #2113593

IndianaTony
Participant

Commando and Air Ace

I used to like those 2…On the subject of artwork, wasn’t Cam Kennedy, who did Rogue Trooper as well, one of the artists? He always had an incredible eye for detail, and a lot of his imagery was almost photographic

February 28, 2002 at 8:20 pm in reply to: One for Lancman #2113615

IndianaTony
Participant

And a Ground-to-Air shot

Courtesy of Ron Olsens Gallery, Picce Copyright Jim Buckel

http://home.attbi.com/~ronsarchive/guest01/index.htm

Attachments:

February 20, 2002 at 5:56 am in reply to: A-26 Invader #2114722

IndianaTony
Participant

RE: A-26 Invader

I remember it going in clear as day. I believe the aircraft was grossly overloaded. From where i was standing, he entered the valley, and the wingtip vortices were milk white. I would say, and it was 20 years ago, that another 6 feet available, he might have made it.

After the crash, all the Air Cadets were rallied to try and keep people back from the wreck, so the fire services could get through. It was my first experience of airshow ghoul factor. We were trying to get people to move back, but they kept crowding in, including one stalwart, on being requested to move back, telling me to “F Off, I’ve paid my money” Anopther unbelievably, had his daughter on his shoulders, to get a better look at the wreckage and bodies, I was seriously sickened that day

Sorry to bring it onto the forum, but seeing the picture again, took me straight back

Tony

January 26, 2002 at 6:43 pm in reply to: One for Lancman #2116846

IndianaTony
Participant

RE: One for Lancman

Ok, one last time.

A week ago, you attacked a part of my business.I didn’t respond to the attack, by attacking you. I asked for you to shed some light on your grievance, I asked you to inform me, as to what the problem was, and I would then do my utmost to rectify the damage, if any had been done. It’s a simple rule of customer service. However, not only were you unwilling to provide evidence, you then, in spite of repeated attempts from me, to ask you to explain this grievance off-forum,you then proceeded to try and turn it into a flame war. I asked you to take it to alt-flame, you refused, by posting more comments here. I now see, that i am referred to as Indiana-Idiot. Well, that was grown up. The incident was over,it may have escaped your notice that the thread was removed. However, in your mind, it is far more fun, to goad companies and individuals. Your defence? I post here on a more regular basis than you do, therefore I am right. Just for your information, there are some very very well known warbird personalities who read this board, but they choose to post, as I do, when there is something that they can comment directly on and with authority.

Being a regular poster, does not make you right or wrong, it just makes you a regular poster. I can only assume, that this comment, is an attempt by you, to create divisions along the line of “Who wants to be in my gang, in an attempt to gain support, because you are a “regular” face. No one is interested.

Let’s get this straight right now. You are making frequent, and unsolicited attacks on me, and a business I am concerned with. As per the rules of this forum and it’s charter, I will seek your removal, if these attacks continue. Now please, if you cannot provide evidence, so that the problem can be addressed, then i would ask you, to refrain from any further attacks. I do NOT attack you, do not do it to me.

For you information, the “Indiana” appelation was given to me , by a US government official, for a service rendered to them, back in the day, it is not one I gave myself

Tony King

January 26, 2002 at 1:31 pm in reply to: One for Lancman #2116902

IndianaTony
Participant

RE: One for Lancman

Lancman,

I really wouldn’t start again,it just annoys everyone, and now you’ve done this, only shows how immature you really are, it’s like you didn’t learn anything last time round. I would asvise, you keep to posting about aeroplanes

Tony King

January 17, 2002 at 12:27 am in reply to: What's your favourite airshow moment? (So far!) #2117892

IndianaTony
Participant

RE: What’s your favourite airshow moment?

LancMan,

My favourite moment, will be when you get in contact with me, about your comments re. Lance Corke Aero

If you are stuck for an e-mail address, feel free to use solotk@totalise.co.uk, and them maybe you can explain, your comment, that Lance deliberately misidentifies goods for sale.

I’m not going to let it drop, and you are not going to hide behind a forum, so, explain it to me. If you have a genuine grievance, it’s always better to sort it out with the organisation you have it with, or do you think you’re funny?

I suggest you get in contact, before a new thread starts….” Internet forums, if I post a potentially libellous remark, can I have action be taken against me?

Tony
http://www.lancecorkeaero.co.uk

January 13, 2002 at 5:08 pm in reply to: Aircraft control columns #2118306

IndianaTony
Participant

RE: Aircraft control columns

Lancman

This is the second time, that I’ve noticed you make a derogatory comment about Lance. Would you like to contact me off board, so we can resolve this?

Tony

http://www.lancecorkeaero.co.uk

December 19, 2001 at 3:22 pm in reply to: Low Flying #2119384

IndianaTony
Participant

RE: Low Flying

“With a full bombload and fuel aboard, Pilot Officer Prune, decided the best way to Pullendorf was by road”……….

Rest of the site here…..

http://www.halifaxbomber.com/

Attachments:

December 19, 2001 at 3:08 pm in reply to: Low Flying #2119387

IndianaTony
Participant

RE: Low Flying

Low-level Flying = Mosquito (Or Beaufighter)

Has anyone ever seen the Air Ministry film “Cooks Tour”?

Mossies going in at very very low level, and navigation hazards being identified as…. “Clock Tower Skipper” -lol
Fine film….

But to get you properly excited, here’s some Beaufighter stuff… Steve, you’ve seen this before :0) http://www.oldcmp.net/ns1.html

Tony
Attachments:

December 16, 2001 at 10:12 pm in reply to: Picture of the day 15/12/01 #2119647

IndianaTony
Participant

RE: BuNo.123168

Interesting Mick,

Surely not another Data-Plate restoration? So it’s an F-4U/1/2/3/4/5/6/7 ? lol

….and I’m still wondering if Yak 11, is in fact a famous 80’s songster, and a very nice bloke to boot….

Can I claim me mystery fiver now?

Tony

December 12, 2001 at 1:57 am in reply to: ML417 gone to the USA #2119952

IndianaTony
Participant

Nope, that’s a home grown board

It may have some resemblance to the old warbirds board, because their are so many familiar faces posting there, but it’s actually, a very different and definately a big site in it’s own right. It’s been going about 3 months, gets 41,000 hits per day on average,has had nearly 4,000 messages posted in that time, and has some very interesting personalities lurking on the periphery (across the site).

The board owner, is a USAF ex-“brat” who loves vintage aircraft,and grew up on a B-52 base, and thought the Internet needed a board, where everyone could share discoveries , interests etc. Topics are many and varied, but the nicest thing about it, is by and large, people pool information.

So far, the information sharing, has discovered at least 5 “new” warbirds, helped various people with projects, and been quite a good place to let off steam, with no fear of censure, or worrying about upsetting warbird owners, by saying something they don’t want to hear.(You fly it,You broke it, you pay for it etc.)

Stephen was kind enough, to describe it as errrrr “lively” which considering some of the conversations that have gone on, is a bit of an understatement.

I suppose the easiest way to describe it, is that this forum, has a wonderful “Britishness” about it, a sort of seriousness, that this type of industry always needs.. The warbirds board, is very much more “Freewheeling and American” if you understand what i mean by that.

Co-incidentally, the board owner, is also trying to construct an in depth warbird registry, so everyone who can help, is more than welcome to contribute

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org

Best regards

Tony

December 7, 2001 at 1:17 pm in reply to: Picture of the day 06/12/01 #2120246

IndianaTony
Participant

RE: Picture of the day 06/12/01

I remember, a very long time ago, an excerpt, from the old news programme “Nationwide”. They were covering the Red Flag exercises,in typical for that Programme…”The Royal Air Force is best” fashion.(Quite right too :0) One of the enduring images, was taken in the SAM control centre. To get a “kill” on the aircraft, the operator had to hold the cross hair on the speeding aircraft for 5 seconds. I can’t say how low the Buccaneer was, but he had a sandstorm in his wake! What I really remember, is the Buccanneer doing all the knots available, the comments from the USAF crew, which included “God, dammnn” and from the operator himself….”Go baby go baby go baby go” -lol needless to say, they couldn’t score a kill….

Tony
(Imperial Airpower Club)
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