Fantastic to be able to piece all of this together. Are the form 78 available at the National Archive? I’m planning my first visit there soon for some similar Typhoon queries (181/247 squadron).
Sorry Elwick, no f78s at the NA. They are available on microfilm at RAFM Hendon. The ORBs are on microfilm at NA Kew.
JP843 was delivered to 51 MU on or about 15 Sept 43; it had the ‘car door’ canopy but a ‘whip’ aerial replaced the earlier mast which protruded through the canopy. The early style of exhaust fairings were fitted and it was equipped to carry two bombs up to 500lb each. Cannon barrels were faired.
The following is based on the Form 78, 197, 198 and 609 Sqn ORBs and K.J.Harding’s log. Form 78s contain a lot of errors and missing entries, particularly in the spring of 1944 when the reporting system seems to have been unable to cope with the mass of movements prior to D-Day. ORBs can also be unreliable in respect of serials but those mentioned are not too bad.
From 51 MU, Lichfield, JP843 was delivered to 197 Sqn at Tangmere on 22 Sept 43. Although reported as ‘Y’ in Mason’s book, the ORB records it as ‘T’ in Oct, Nov and Dec 43. It does not record the letters after that.
On 3 Jan 44 it was flown by Flg Off K.J.Harding on a Rhubarb to Yvrench with 3 other Typhoons, each armed with 2 x 250 lb bombs. Harding became separated from the others in the target area and, returning alone, was intercepted by 4 Fw190s which he managed to outrun but sustained two hits. The F.78 reports the aircraft ‘Cat B RIW’ on 7 Jan 44; RIW means Repaired in Works i.e.. at an MU or with a contractor. However it also reports JP843 as awaiting collection the next day but there is no information as to who carried out the repair. It is reported back on charge of 197 Sqn on 12 Jan 44 but appears on operations in the ORB on 11 Jan.
Last 197 ORB entry is on 29 Jan 44 and the following month there was an influx of new Typhoons, with sliding hoods and RP mods so it is likely JP843 was side-lined and the next F.78 entry is 13 MU, Henlow, ‘RIW’ 22 Feb 44, followed by Gloster Aircraft on 25 Apr 44. It is likely that both these allocations were concerned with canopy and RP mods. After Glosters it was next reported at 83 GSU, Redhill, on 8 June 44 and allocated to ‘603’ Sqn the same day. The latter is probably an error for 609 as this is corrected by an entry on 20 June 44.
JP843 does not appear in 609’s ORB during June 44 but it does appear briefly in 198 Sqn’s ORB on 24 June as ‘K’, when it is reported returning with engine-trouble. It then appears in 609’s ORB between 8 July and 27 July 44 when it FTR from a VCP operation, with the loss of Plt Off Price.
I’m not too sure what is going on in June 1944. It was a time of great to-ing and fro-ing in Typhoon squadrons due high losses, dust problems from Normandy and movement between bases. It was quite usual for squadrons to borrow aircraft from another unit on the same Wing; 198 and 609 were both part of 123 Wing and shared the same bases during this period. So JP843 could have been coded PR-(?) then TP-K and then PR-(?) again. Or it could have been PR-K throughout the period.
DN263 was originally issued to 183 Sqn but was transferred to 175 Sqn when the units exchanged bases at the end of May 43 (175 arrived at Lasham 29 May 43). On 11 Aug 43, now based at Lydd, Flt Sgt J.J.Rowland took off for formation practice but DN263 shed it’s port tyre; he was instructed to make a wheels-up landing at Detling. Initially assessed as Cat Ac DN263 was react ‘E’ at Hawker’s on 20 Aug 43.
JP839 was delivered to 486 Sqn RNZAF on or about 15 Sept 43; it was coded SA-V. On 5 April 44, while the Sqn was based at Castle Camps and in the process of conversion to the Tempest, Flt Sgt A.G.Turner (NZ412288) was killed on a night training flight when JP839 spun in 1.5 miles SW of Croxton.
Found another period photo which shows the label read …
WARNING. (In red)
THROTTLE WILL NOT (in white)
OPEN WITH CONTROL
IN START
POSITION
The last word is underlined by a white arrow pointing left.
Well, the top line is ‘WARNING’ in red! Still trying to decipher the rest. PM me with an email and I’ll send what I have so far.
I’m trying to find out which markings Flt Lt Roy Crane’s personal Hawker Typhoon would have worn.
EL-
Many thanks
Sepic
After flying Typhoons for 6 months with 182 Sqn, Roy Crane transferred to 181 Sqn in February 1944 and joined A Flight. He flew a variety of Typhoons (including EL-B JR297, more than most). On 16 May 44 he carried out an air test on his new aircraft, EL-E MN639. This was a brand new, bubble-canopied, 4-bladed Typhoon with the large (Tempest) tailplane. Although now based at Hurn, the squadron began operating from bases in France on a daily basis and EL-E appears in the background of IWM photo CL182 which features a Spit on B.2 Bazenville. The Typhoon has full invasion stripes and the photo has spawned a number of ‘profile’ drawings in various publications.
MN639 suffered a sleeve valve problem on 17 June after which it seems Roy only flew it once more (on the 20th). It was force-landed on a partially completed US strip (A.5) by another pilot on 30 June, declared Cat B and returned to the UK for repair. After that Roy flew a variety of aircraft but several of his last trips (before he was shot down in it on 2 August 44, becoming PoW) were in EL-E JP430. This was an older Typhoon that had been modified with a bubble canopy and RP and would have had a 3-blader, small tailplane and D-Day stripes on undersides only.
Cranswick
from 174’s ORB ….
The incident took place on 174 Sqn’s only operation that day: the unit was part of 121 Wing based at B.100 Goch, the first British airfield in Germany. Four Typhoons were detailed to attack MET (mechanized enemy transport) on a road NE of ‘Henglo’ (presumably Hengelo). The transport was found and attacked with cannon and rockets. 6 MET were claimed destroyed and 6 more damaged.
Red 4 (Flt Lt C.W.House) was hit by intense light flak at about 500 ft and force-landed in enemy territory near Enschede. Lt Higgins’ Typhoon was also hit in the tail but he returned to base OK.
Flt Lt House was known to have landed safely and unhurt and returned on 3 April, near exhausted. “What and adventure” exclaimed the diarist but gave no further detail!
The fact that a Flt Lt was flying Red 4 suggests he was new to this type of operation and in fact he had joined 174 a few days earlier, on 26 March. The squadron was disbanded on 9 April 1945, one of 3 Typhoon squadrons to suffer this fate, owing to a shortage of pilots. 174’s pilots were mainly posted to other squadrons in 121 Wing, Flt Lt Chris House going to 175 Sqn.
RB396 comes home
Many congratulations on your acquisition Dave. Wishing you more significant finds and speedy progress.
For me it is a personal postwar IXE or XVI when Johnnie Johnson commanded from September 45 to March 46 124 Wing just in Eindhoven, see http://www.rafweb.org/Biographies/Johnson_JE.htm
Johnson is known to have flown Mk.XIVs with 125 Wing immediately postwar. When that Wing was disbanded in July 45 he took over 124 Wing which was then equipped with Tempests and Meteors and later (Sept 45) Tempests, Spit XIs, XIVs and Mosquitos. So he is unlikely to have had a personal Mk.IX or XVI then.
hi
try a post on britmodeller ww2 aviation forum,
chris thomas is there discussing the new airfix typhoon model,
if he doesnt know no one will
cheers
Jerry
Jerry
I’ve already spoken to Chris but he knows no more than I posted above. He says thanks for the compliment.
Cranswick
MN415 markings
136 Wing would not have its own markings but it was usual for the OC (Wg Cdr J.I.Kilmartin at that time) and the Wg Cdr Flying (Bryan’s post) to have personal markings on their aircraft, usually their initials. Most would have carried the small Wg Cdr’s pennant painted near the cockpit.
As Bryan was lost just 4 days after D-Day his aircraft would still have been carrying full D-Day ‘Special Markings’ over the standard Day Fighter Scheme of the period.
No photo or record how Bryan’s initial were marked has come to light as far as I know. It could have been ‘JB’ or ‘JMB’ – either marked JM-B as per squadron letters or as JMB in a single group a bit small than than the standard 24″ letters. This latter style was becoming a trend in mid-44.
You may see photos of a Typhoon marked ‘JB’ but these are usually Wg Cdr (later Grp Capt) Johnny Baldwin’s aircraft.
This was posted on a Spitfire page on Facebook.
Yes, it looks like Johnnie Johnson’s Spit, but my gut feeling tells me “no”.
Pointed rudder? The camouflage doesn’t look “right” either (yes, I know it’s black and white, but it doesn’t look the same as contemporary aircraft).
Any guesses?
Yes, I’d put money on it being MK392, JEJ’s Spit IX from March 1944 to April 1945 during which period he was Wing Commander Flying (or Operations) 144 and then 127 Wings. The distinctive squared letters with serifs are visible in other shots of his Spit during this period – quite unlike the lettering on his earlier EN398.
Just brilliant! All these years to find the answer.
As you can see, we didn’t think much of it on the day. Typical – my whole tour on Typhoons & no engagement.
= Tim
And brilliant from you too, Tim. I’ve wondered for a long time how the Typhoon squadrons applied these markings over their existing under-wing identity stripes, as no photographs ever came to light. Thanks to your your sketch we now know – just added on top – so virtually the whole underside of the wing became black and white stripes!
Original diagram for application of the stripes attached.
Chris
Sky codes, 8″ high serials.