Jayce,

If there is a Sabre at Rechlin, (sorry I have no photo) it could have come from either a Typhoon or Tempest. In June 1944, Hans-Werner Lurche flew a Typhoon at Rechlin. This he described in passing on p 121 of his book, Luftwaffe Test Pilot , Jane’s, 1980, ISBN 0 7106 0031 3. He does not identify the aircraft.

However, On Special Missions – The Luftwaffe’s Research and Experimental Squadrons 1923 -1945, Smith, Creek and Petrick, p92-93, 2003,Classic Books ISBN 9 781903 223338, shows EJ 956 ex 486 squadron in colour profile and photographs at Rechlin in June 1944, but the Sabre is not likely to be from it as it crashed near Harburg in July 1944. A photo in Lerche’s book shows JP 961 JX-U recovered by rail after force landing, it says, in 1943. Perhaps that is the donor engine referred to by your colleague.

Lurche then flew the Tempest V and this is described pp 127- 131. He seemed to enjoy it, but again did not identify the aircraft.

Unfortunately Lerche’s book is not indexed and so there might be more within its covers than I have related. (Incidentally this book reveals Lurche’s part in August 1944 by flying a Lancaster at night over Berlin to determine by experiment how to combat “Window.”)

Jean-Louis Roba’s book, Foreign Planes in the Service of the Luftwaffe, Pen and Sword , 2009, ISBN 184884081-0 shows in photograph, (no page number) JR 319, “G” (he says from being recovered fairly intact, after a crash. The book then says without evidence that the “German Air Force seems to have tested at least two Typhoons.”

JP845 of 485 Squadron was also captured (photograph in Roba no page number, but says lost near Abbeville 21 December 1943) but there is no evidence of its flying in German hands.

Roba also shows a Beaufighter in flight in German colours, p 140, a captured Mosquito on a beach, undercarriage down. This may be the aircraft in colour profile and photographs in Smith, Creek and Petrick, p82-83. This aircraft was captured before 3 September 1943.

WZ862

There is German documentation to show at least 3 Typhoons were flown by the Luftwaffe. EJ956 ex SA-I of 486 Sqn (f/l 24 March 43), JP548 ex 174 Sqn (f/l 14 February 44) and a third as yet unidentified.

There are photos taken by US forces in a wrecked hangar near Paris which show JP845 SA-H (ex 486 Sqn), apparently being rebuilt or used for spares retrieval, along with JP915 US-K (ex 56 Sqn), JP510 FM-Y (ex 257 Sqn) and at least one other (as well as Spits and P-47s). JP915 still has its Sabre but JP845’s and one other’s have been removed .

JR319 HH-C was shot down on 16 March 44. An earlier 175 Sqn Typhoon, JP577 HH-T (f/l 16 August 43) was displayed at Beutepark 5 der Luftwaffe, Paris-Nanterre, still with its detached tail unit. In fact many Typhoons were force-landed as they operated at levels too low for the pilot to bale out – so the Germans would have had plenty of reasonably intact Sabres to choose from.

Only one captured Tempest is known to have been flown; EJ709 f/l on 5 October 44, 274 Sqn. As with the Typhoon, many others were forced to crash-land in enemy territory and could have been Sabre-donors.

Thread creep or what ….? I too have seen figures that show that in 1945 the Sabre was more reliable than the Merlin but can’t lay my hands on them at the moment, so I will not bang that drum. I would, however, say that in common with many of these ‘pantomime’ threads (oh yes it was … oh no it wasn’t) the true deciding factors such as cost, production capacity, demand and timescales are often ignored.

So back to the originator’s query. First a health warning. Anything using the artwork in those early Profile publications as a source must be treated with caution. There are 6 other Typhoons on the same page as our tufted test aircraft and five of them exhibit serious flaws.

Some 30 years ago I transcribed RAE’s record cards on Typhoons. These detailed all flights, pilots, and gave a brief description of the tests carried out. There were 24 different aircraft used. Many could be eliminated for our purposes (if the published image was correct in its detail) and of the remainder, bearing in mind the arguments from my erudite fellow posters, one seemed to be the best candidate; R7589.

Although this had been one of 56 Sqn’s original equipment in October 1941 (US-U), it had gone back to Hawker for mods in April 42, which would have given it a canopy as shown in the profile drawing. It returned to Duxford and took part in ‘Jubilee’ with 266 sqn as ZH-T and was handed on to the first Typhoon bomber squadron (181) in October 42 with initial training on the type. On 7 Nov 42 it was flown to RAE but no tests seem to have been carried out until it had been to Langley for mods between 9 Dec 42 and 26 Jan 43. During this period it would have acquired the identity stripes shown in the drawing.

R7589 commenced ‘rudder control’ and ‘rudder trim’ trials on 6 Feb 43 flown by Flt Lt Moffet; these continued until 14 March 43. From 18 March the trials were frustratingly described as ‘Investigation’. Other pilots were briefly involved and from the end of May and through June the flights were all by Sqn Ldr Tobin. The flights went on until 1 October 43 and on 3 Oct R7589 was flown to Rearsby where it was broken down for use in Taylorcraft’s repair program.

There is also a note in AVIA 15/2601 (Typhoon accident file) that R7589 was used for ‘deflection of tail’ trials, during which it was photographed. Until someone can locate the original test report with photos of the tufted Tiffie, this identification remains a guess.

Hi Andy

Hopefully the information supplied by Cranswick is correct, and we now appear to have a firmed up D-Day from Howard Morley, a man on the spot!

As to the accuracy of TP-T and, possibly, JR197 I have no idea, it appears to be a J on the day fighter band, next to the first white stripe, and not an M or N and, again, Cranswick provides confirmation of JR197?

Zorglub – thanks for the info on Mate Milich.

It seems we are now filling in the gaps with the names of several pilots, the serial number, location and date – just a little bit more, like confirmation of TP-T perhaps!?

Allan

The identification of the Typhoon in the photo rests on the ‘T’ (noted by an earlier correspondent) visible on the leading edge. This was a common location for repeat of the individual code letter on Typhoons.

We are fortunate that 198 Sqn’s ORB is one of the few which (for this period and though to VE-day) quotes serial numbers and codes for operational flights (usually it is one or the other or neither). ‘T’ is identified as JR197 from early June through to the date it is was shot down with the loss of Sqn Ldr I.J.Davies, although recorded as ‘MN197’. It was flown by Davies several times, including twice on D-Day.

However we are fortunate again in that 198 is one of the few units that saved copies of the Form OR101 with its ORB. This was a monthly return on aircraft movements in and out of the unit plus record of damage, loss etc. These forms have proved to be far more accurate than most ORBs in respect of serials. The OR101 for June 1944 records JR197’s loss on 15 June.

The ‘MN’197 error must have been repeated in the signal to the Air Ministry as loss in action on 15 June 44 is recorded on MN197’s Form 78. It later, however, appears in storage at 5 MU and was finally scrapped in September 1946.

This recording on the wrong Form 78 is quite widespread. MN175, mentioned by Zorglub had its loss on 15 June recorded on MN174’s card. Perhaps it was the same dyslexic clerk … on a Friday (?) afternoon?

Not so fast!

If NH265 was issued to 403 Squadron on 12 May 1944, as per:

NH265 LFIX CBAF M66 39MU 12-5-44 403S Combat with Bf109s 8m N of Flers 16-7-44 F/O M B O’Kelly killed (from http://www.spitfires.ukf.net/p078.htm)

That would appear to confirm a) this is Redhill, and also this would apply to MK574 in the same picture and b) the date on the photo of 7 June 1944 is incorrect, and that the photo was taken shortly before 12 May 1944.

Allan

The ‘history’ of NH265 (based on the Form 78 I believe) translates as ’39 MU 12-5-44′ not 403 Sqn on that date.

The 2nd TAF apparently stopped sending the signals (from which Form 78s were updated) during the weeks preceding D-Day. The standard route for new or repaired aircraft reaching the 2ndTAF squadrons at this time was from MU, to Group Support Unit (final prep and storage prior to issue) and then to the squadron. During April to June allocations to the GSU were sometimes recorded (often without a date) but squadron allocations were not.

The photo in question is IWM CH13317 and their website gives the ‘production date’ of 27 May 1944. From experience, I have found these dates are sometimes a day or two later than the date the photo was actually taken.

So, still Redhill, but late rather than early May.

One Typhoon, R7639, was delivered to Rolls Royce for trials with a Griffon but the conversion was never completed.

4-blader Typhoons

The squadron leader states:

“The Hawker Typhoon only had a three-blade propeller, while its sister aircraft, the Hawker Tempest, did have the same engine and a four-bladed propeller, but only with a 14-foot diameter”

However, didn’t certain versions of the Typhoon have a four bladed propellor?

Yes, very roughly around 1000 out of 3315. 14-foot diameter on both Typhoon and Tempest V.

Hope they keep an eye open for…

Does that mean that Typhoon MN235 can have it’s original radiator back?

Cees

… all the missing Typhoon bits – spinner prop, rad, ducting and upper nose cowlings. If you run the video on the Freeman Field site noted in the first post, Hendon’s Typhoon makes a brief appearance at 1:35 or thereabouts – just the top of the fuselage – it is clear that the cowlings were already off.

I do recall that someone has reported a sighting of what could be the missing radiator on an airfield but regret I can’t recall when or where.

The red ‘Millie P’

There was a colour three-view in RAF Flying Review magazine of this aircraft by Peter Endsleigh-Castle in the late 50’s or early 60’s ,some of which I have boxed up in a cupboard (I used to await the monthly issue eagerly to see the latest colour drawing).
The drawing was of a red aircraft, as per the Revell box , so they perpetuated an error that came from the artist having had wrong colour information initially, and subsequent issues corrected the colour to olive drab, after some correspondence,and there were some who agreed that the name was Millie ‘G’ , not ‘P’, if I remember.

The Endsleigh-Castle 3 (or was it 4?)-view came first. I knew the Revell box artist, the late Brian Knight, and he used the Endsleigh-Castle drawing as reference. He said he still blushed (mentally at least) when he saw the Revell box art. But as Brian S says, references were few in those days and seldom questioned to the extent they are now.

Brian K produced artwork for Revell and Airfix (mainly figures), covers for paperbacks, prints, commemorative plates and, my favourites, cover art for Windsock Datafiles. All excellent artwork. He was one of the founder members of the Guild of Aviation Artists.