Rimmerthe day you get a Chinese ABM system, you’ll sing a different tune. typical. :rolleyes:
Take your Mutual Admiration Society of Pakistan to the PAF thread. you’ll find many more who’ll love you unconditionally out there.
No one in this day and age thinks they can 100% gaurantee protection against nuke missiles. It really is insanity to think so.
RimmerWhen one thinks about destroying with BM or CM, SAM like S-400 will keep him at bay. It will give an excellent self-defence capability. Then our own BM and CM can do rest of the job….. we need both… :dev2:
No nation on earth has a proven 100% anti BM/CM capability. Yet again certain posters think if they actually write this down it will become gospel.
Thanks for the kind words Insig. Needless to say, whenever facts are falsified as frequently they are done by some posters, I will strive to be there to correct them! 😉
Rimmerwe know that. he said India NEEDS it, not that India has it. learn to read. :rolleyes:
Good, just clarifying that.
RimmerIndia does not have the S-400.
Rimmeryeah yeah..punched holes in your argument about why Sweden would’nt sell fighters to Pakistan. the statements made were by the Swedish Minister, not some Indian minister, for your information so it doesn’t matter if the article was by PTI.
but why would you need them ? the FC-20 is much better isn’t it, and comes cheap with credit agreements and plus it improves the friendship between China-Pakistan which is “taller than mountains, deeper than oceans”.
better luck next time.
Ankush
I dont understand.I just posted a link from a 2008 article from Aviation week confirming Pakistan as a potential customer. Surely you can understand nations change their positions on arms sales after 6 years!?
Now you start talking about FC-20 and China.
I proved you wrong, Pakistan is a potential Gripen customer.
“Better luck next time”!? I suppose imitation is the best form of flattery! :p
RimmerI was merely pointing out how you and the other guy made inaccurate claims about the Gripen just to suit you, by saying that it wasn’t multi-role enough. how does it matter whether it was in 2004 or not. the PAF evaluated the Gripen, wanted it, the Pakistani Govt. approached Sweden and was turned down. you said that if they sold AEW&C, they’ll sell fighters as well, which is not true. I merely pointed out the fallacy of your claims.
OK, remember. You wanted to go there….
1) Despite this being a 4 6 year old Indian news report with a massive bias.
2) Despite this being when quite a few countries not selling to Pakistan then due to us being under military rule
3) Despite sales of SAM Missiles and AWACs
Below is a 2008 article from AVIATIONWEEK. A very respected journal. Or you can carry on living in the past 6 years ago.
“says Kemp, who also mentions Belgium and Pakistan as possible Gripen customers.”
Better luck next time.
Rimmer2004!? 6 years ago!?
Come Ankush. Even you can do better then this.
I can go back and find reports about US selling no weapons at all to India if I go back far enough.
Rimmerwhats so special about the JDAM that you keep harping about it ? from wikipedia, this is what the JDAM does
so its a guidance kit that converts existing dumb bombs into PGM with an INS/GPS system.
IAF has been using Griffin kits for converting dumb bombs into LGBs
in addition to this, the Mirage-2000H/TH carry the Crystal Maze missile which is a derivative of the Popeye stand-off air-launched missile.
The point is in the past posts it was claimed India had a JDAM eqevelent. I asked if they really do. He lied. It is that simple. Thats why I am “harping” on about it. The discussion was not about its specific qualities. It is asking for proof when (again) grandiose claims are made.
As usual I dont expect an answer.
Rimmerits not good enough yet, thats what it would indicate..after all, they only recently bought Chinese Anti-submarine warfare Z9EC helicopters for their new F-22P frigates. so if the WZ-10 was as good as a Super Cobra, they’d go for it instead..
or maybe simply because the US will provide Super Cobra’s as part of a foreign military package and Pakistan won’t have to pay for it. simple economics ?
I think you are right Ankush. If Pakistan had a choice it would probably wisley spend $1 Billion elsewhere. However, if the kit is free and it has to be American, AH-1Z is not a bad choice, although I still find it a strange one.
We would be the only user outside USMC. The Apache on the otherhand is in use in many nations….
RimmerIts a Pakistani newspaper isn’t it ? whats wrong if I posted an article, an editorial actually, that says that the Erieye is a medium-tech AEW&C ?? its not like I wrote that article..touched a raw nerve it looks like..:rolleyes:
Type has a point Ankush. Everyone on here has seen some pretty p*ss poor articles by Pakistani and Indian newspapers. When we find an amusing one we dont even bother posting. Unless we have other reasons to do so.
RimmerAm assuming this is just an additional report about the Block 52s and not about MLU A/B birds.
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan’s Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman has said that the country will get eight new F-16 fighter jets by June 2010.
The Air Chief Marshal said that after the induction of hi-tech Saab-2000 Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AEW&CS) aircraft in the Pakistan Air Force (PAF), the country’s frontiers have become more secure.
In an exclusive interview with DawnNews, the air chief said that the PAF was in the process of getting more advanced weapons which would significantly enhance its capability.—DawnNews
Rimmerwhat a surprise ! I bet you see no need for the LCA as well or even the IAF itself, yet that is not how things actually are. 😀
this is the reality, deal with it. 😉
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people, we really should stop answering to the trolls. their only objective is to derail/lock this thread. I suggest we restrict the replies to people who have genuine questions and ability to discuss (zero, vikasrehman etc).
Rahul
You have still not answered Insigs question. Hiding behind flame accusations wont make it go away and it is a legitimet question on a IAF thread. In fact Teer has still not answered my question.
How will sending trainee pilots from Hawk to LCA and then to a fighter OCU (Possibly even an LCA OCU) be efficient?
If posters make grandiose statements they cannot explain or back up and then these statements are questioned, this is not “flame” or “trolling”.This is intelligent debate.
RimmerEarly F-16 picwith ATLIS pod. Courtesy of Abbas/Pakdef.
Rimmerok. claims and counter-claims as you say. so we’ll leave that aside.
my mistake. I remembered him as an AM. However that doesn’t change the fact that he was responsible for flight operations for PAF during Kargil. The guy knew everything about the PAF’s state of readiness and ability to wage high intensity war over a long period, so when he states it, I can’t see how you, being a Pakistani, would doubt it.
yes it does. could you show any picture ? did the F-16s or Mirages have the ATLIS ?
then say it clearly. you said that with JDAMs, the PAF will have capability that the IAF doesn’t have, when that is not true.
F-16had ATLIS, will get you pic
Where is there any equievelent of JDAM?
Rimmerwhat ?! deterrence ? in 1999 ?! 😀
the IAF was itching to have a go, there is even a video on youtube where a MiG-29 pilot says that they locked onto 2 F-16s but they bugged out instead of approaching the border and he hopes that next time they come in closer so he can shoot at them.
but the GoI didn’t want to escalate the war by going into Pakistani territory and thats what made them prohibit the IAF from going across. it was to not risk a nuclear strike from Pakistan, where it would feel that its national sovereiginity was at stake and used nukes. the PAF wasn’t even a factor in any deterrance.
and if you’ve read Air Marshal Kaiser Tufail’s blog, it was good for Pakistan that the war was not escalated- with war wastage reserves of only about a week, its F-16 fleet would’ve been useless in a week’s time..after that, those old Mirages and F-7s would’ve been the only fighters defending Pakistan. and in those days, the IAF had BVR capable fighters, the PAF didn’t.
in case you doubt that, I’ll post his article here again next time. By the way, he’s a PAF Air Marshal, so I hope you’ll believe his word at least.
there was no deterrence due to any capabilities of the PAF, and if the GoI had’nt made the decision to stay under the nuclear threshold, the PAF would’ve had to deal with an IAF and IN that would’ve thrown their full might at them. not a pretty proposition for the PAF of 1999.
what did they guide them with ? which fighter carried Paveways ?
the IAF uses Russian KAB series bombs as well as Israeli PGMs and Paveways, as well as the Crystal Maze missiles (a variant of the Popeye)..don’t talk about things as if you know it, when its obvious you don’t.
even though this wasn’t directed at me, I couldn’t help but laugh at it..I mean look who’s talking !!
Lets notget into who locked on to what, as its claims that cannot be substatiated. There are news reports General Kiayni showed pictures of intercepted SU-30s to visiting US officers and Pakistani pilots claim lock ons for MIG-29s. Untill we have proof, best not to make claims.
Also, if we aregoingto highlight words to make out how correct we are, Tufail is retired and was not an Air Marshal.Think he retired as Group Captain or Air Commodore.
They were pictures with PAF equipped with ATLIS pod and Paveway in 80s. Does that answer your question?
Dont doubt IAF has a PGM capability,my point was made in response to poster claiming IAF had it before PAF, when facts point to itbeing other way round.
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