“The JF 17 Thunder, the light weight and low cost multi role fighter aircraft has high maneuverability and BVR capability. It has advanced aerodynamics configuration and high thrust. The JF 17 Thunder will replace the ageing fleets of A 5s, F 7Ps and the Mirages in the PAF inventory thus fulfilling a multi role task.”

http://theasiandefence.blogspot.com/2009/11/first-jf-17-thunder-fighter-plane.html

With the start of serial production of the aircraft at PAF Kamra, June 30, 2009 became a Red Letter day in the annals of PAF’s chronicles. A lightweight and low-cost multi-role fighter aircraft with high manoeuvrability and Beyond Visual Range (BVR) capability, the JF-17 has Mach 1.6 capability with advanced aerodynamics configuration and high thrust. It can operate over long distances and is well suited to undertaking a broad spectrum of offensive and defensive missions. Fulfilling a multi-role task, this aircraft is meant to eventually replace the ageing fleet of A-5s, F-7s and the Mirages in the PAF inventory, and thus become the PAF’s mainstay.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2009%5C11%5C27%5Cstory_27-11-2009_pg3_3

Furthermore, he confirmed that the first JF 17 Squadron would be established shortly. The JF-17 is a lightweight and low-cost multi-role fighter aircraft with a high manoeuvrability and beyond visual range (BVR) capability. It has advanced aerodynamics configuration and high thrust.

http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/464/

Weapons Capability
The aircraft would be fitted with modern Stores Management System incorporating accurate weapons delivery modes and solutions involving minimum pilot work load
The system would be based on Mil-Std-1760 architecture for all stations including the wingtip stations
The aircraft would be capable of carrying some of the most modern as well as conventional weapons, including:
70-100 Km range beyond visual range active missiles
Highly agile Imaging infra red short range missiles
Air to sea missiles
Anti radiation missiles
Laser guided weapons
Programmable delays cluster bombs
Runway penetration bombs
General purpose bombs
Training bombs
23 mm double barrel gun

http://www.pac.org.pk/amfsite-final/jf17specifications.html

Capable of carrying, yeah sure, why not, question is whether the JF-17 is BVR capable right now, very doubtful.

And with only a handful of actual JF-17s ordered, only dumb bombing runs done, talk of better French systems being considered (and issues with funding, as usual), it does appear series production of the definitive variant is yet to start.

All thats been done so far is putting together the SKD kits of the LSP according to specs provided by Chengdu.

You guys all crawl out around the same time huh?

Teer, thanks for the flame bait, I will resist it today. Have made my points.

😉

Yes, which is why I had mentioned that the configurations are already known as have already been available on the web. So I did not expect anything new to come up. The proposed Western avionics for J-17 is also well advertised on the web.

Well, first of all, we dont know the exact Chinese or Western configurations yet. If PAF does make a choice, it would certainly be in its interests for that decision to be ambigious….

Its people who say BVR integration has happened that has to give the links. I update you on this very thread whatever happens on the LCA (thanks to Livefist and others).

I can make such arguments that LCA can supercruise and can ask for links to prove its not.

Mulls = considers

Yes Azerbaijan and that from topix hardly reliable. What about China ?

Again apples to Oranges, The Launching of the Nuclear Sub was Widley Publicized, JF 17 BVR integration was not if it ever happened.

Many Indian Air Force officers, HAL officials and others have described LCA as all weather, multirole fighters, and about what BVR AAMS it will carry etc. It cannot yet, there is a difference. Your ACM is possibly talking about the future, I am basically saying it cannot yet.

You really want to drag this out huh? 😀

OK. Topix, “hardly reliable”? Its an Azerbajan website. Let me now if that makes it less reliable then Indian ones.

Our ACM is “possibley talking about the future”?

Now if I say you cannot comprehend English would you be insulted? I am assuming you know the difference between past, present and future tense? Please dont feel offended but have to ask as it seems you do not understand. I will post again for you to read

“The JF-17 Thunder is capable of carrying a variety of conventional and precision-guided bombs and air-to-air and air-to-sea missiles of short and ‘beyond visual’ ranges.”

Yes in 2013 we wlll probably see a picture of PAF Raptors being loaded with AMRAAMS. :rolleyes:

And the report that JF 17 is capable, I have seen similar reports about the LCA on tons of Indian news sites. The reality is that its only capable when its operationally realized.

If you look at the JF 17 in Pakistani Media every little step is covered with big fan fare, so it is inconceivable that BVR firing and testing of PGMs will not be covered.

Again, making silly comments about Raptors is perhaps revealing the lack of evience and depth to your argument. Sad really.

No, not everything is covered by Pakistan media. You and the rest of the world will realise that the media can only report what teh military want them to. If PAF have operationlised BVR and want to keep it secret it will be very easily kept from Pakistan media.

Let me give you an example that you yourself may be able to comprehend.

Indian media did not show any full pictures of Indias hme made nuke sub when it launched. If I went by your logic I would now assume India does not have a nuke sub. Afterall I saw no pictures.

Amateur hour is over Quadbike….

Its your word agains a PAF ACM. I know who I am backing. 😀

please don’t resort to sarcasm or insults otherwise the tone of the arguments get changed.

To date no single report has indicated that the JF-17 has either been integrated with or tested out the PL-12 or AMRAAM or MICA or any PGM or LGB. We’ve never seen any pictures of it with them, its not been seen testing them out, its not even been mentioned. For that matter, what LDP has been integrated with it ? Atlis ? No picture as yet to prove that it has.

Then High Mark 2010 occurs and we see it dropping dumb bombs, which is fine. But that does indicate that it hasn’t yet been integrated with BVR or precision weapons. You say that it somehow is wrong to say that..then the onus lies on you to show that it actually has been integrated with BVR weapons or precision guided bombs.

Do you have any sources to prove the contrary ? No you don’t, so you’re basically saying that we should believe you because you say so, but you have no proof either.

Its well known that its integrated several precision guided weapons. When some new weapon is integrated on western platforms, it is made public. That’s how we know that the F-15E can carry and fire precision guided weapons. On the JF-17 nothing of that sort has been accomplished so far. Show me one report from a reliable source to prove me otherwise.

that is a simple case of radio comms maybe..what Data link does it have?

No insult intended. You were the one who claimed it had no BVR or PGM capability so I would assume the onus is on you to prove your claims?

Please go back and actually read. You are implying JF-17 does not have a BVR or PGM capability because PAF have not released a picture of it with BVR or PGM?

Never ever occured to you that PAF may not want to release this picture yet?
We dont need to shout from the rooftops about everything.

Idont know how old you are but let me tell you a story.

In early 80s it was assumed PAF had no PGM capability, this was the case for 10 years. PAF received no targeting pods from US and (allegedly) no PGMs.

in 1989 a book was published (Defenders of Pakistan) which showed a Paveway being loaded onto a PAF F-16. PAF claimed the picture being published was an accident. It still kept quiet and it was not till the early 90s that PAF admitted to being the only country in the world to mate a non-US targeting pod onto a US aircraft and have the capability for PGM missions.

Now have a think about that and about what else PAF chooses to show and chooses not to show.

But let me also give you some hints from someone who may have more knowledge on the JF-17 then you

“Air Chief Marshal Suleman said it was a major step towards the goal of self-reliance in military aviation industry. He said the aircraft would replace the air force’s ageing fleet of A-5s, F-7s and Mirages.

The JF-17 Thunder is capable of carrying a variety of conventional and precision-guided bombs and air-to-air and air-to-sea missiles of short and ‘beyond visual’ ranges.”

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/06-assembling-of-first-jf-17-fighter-aircraft-begins-rs-10

Its also a matter of necessity vs the lack of it.

PAF really needs the JF 17 more than the IAF needs the LCA.

They are more willing to put the half-cooked birds into squadron service and then upgrade them while the IAF wants LCA shining and up to latest spec before it enters squadrons ervice IAF has more money and hence more options (like the MRCA or simply more Sukhois).

Personally I think the PAF’s approach is better as it makes the Air Force more self-sufficient, but others disagree.

Quadbike

PAF and China fully tested JF-17 for years before our first squadron beame operational. How is it “half cooked”?

We will have a Block 2 version, but thats a bit like saying the orginal F-16A Block 1 was “half cooked” as it did not have the capabilities of the Block 25s.

PAF finally gets a new, cheap plane we can put in widespread service and immune from US sanctions.

LCA may not enter widespread service and IAF is already pinning its hopes on LCA MK2.

I would say both projects are having varying degrees of success. To put it politely….

PAF has alot of options other then JF-17, please dont worry.

You will be able to come to Pakistan in June and see 4 of our “other options” landing in Pakistan 😉