Well to be honest Boeing does indeed need to come up with something to challenge the A320NEO.

They do indeed, and like others here, I’m sure they will. I am more than happy to be proved wrong, but isn’t this a case where Boeing may have underestimated the need voiced by several airlines for more fuel efficient airliners in this important segment of the market, or in some cases, a completely new design altogether. IMO they seem to have misread the market before, for instance their opinions in the past that there is no need for very large capacity aircraft. I’m not going to get mired in the argument over wether the A380 program has been, or will be, a success. The fact is that they are now in service and selling, albeit slowly. IMO the market IS there for that kind airliner, witness the updating and capacity increase of the 747. Its swings and roundabouts though, as the A350XWB is obviously a reaction by AI to the 787. Nobody gets it right all the time, so lets get Boeing into this particular arena and see where the competition takes them and the airlines that they supply.

Aw shucks GA, you’re just no fun anymore! 😉

Nice to see that the Russian airliner industry is not yet dead. I can’t help but wonder about the marketing skills within the likes of Tupolev, Ilyushin etc. In the Soviet era there was the Aviaexport organisation, who I’m sure many members will remember, that handled all aspects of the USSR’s sales to external customers, and printed some brilliant sales material for us Soviet airliner ‘nuts’ to collect, their posters were second to none!

We’re going to disagree here. I find it extremely frustrating that certain individuals take such a dim view of others choices of who to fly with. Again, it’s an individual choice that has absolutely nothing to do with anyone else.

And I totally understand what you’re saying, and it is your right to say it.

Just to be crystal clear, I do not have any problem whatsoever with anyone using these airlines, and no one has to justify themselves to me. What I will say however, is that I, and I’m sure many others, got to see the negative effects that these airlines and their deleterious business practices caused, close up. It was the policies and objectives of these operators that led to the loss of my own job, after 10 yrs of clawing my way up to a senior grade within my company. I could be called bitter, and therefore of having a distorted view of this situation, but I have no problem with that. My experience is what it is and I’m shaped by it, as I guess we all are.

I take your point, and I’m heartened by you choosing not to use Ryanair. So long as its for your own reasons, and not for what I or anyone else says.:)

I can’t understand why people waste so much energy so vehemently saying (or implying) people shouldn’t fly with them. It’s a simple choice, either do or don’t.

Surely, as this is a forum, one should expect to see negative views on any subjects covered on it. Yes, we all have a choice of who we fly with, and we exercise that right of choice to suit ourselves, but we should all be prepared to view members arguments whatever they may be. I think to call that a waste of energy on certain peoples part, a little unreasonable.

I am and have always been vehemently opposed to these so called ‘cheap’ airlines and the way they operate. As I’ve said before, none of them operate on a level playing field with the ‘legacy’ carriers, RYR in particular make great play of what they perceive as their ‘transformation’ of the airline industry’s landscape. They conveniently fail to mention that without the endless subsidies and exemptions from this charge and that fee, this so called transformation could never have taken place. But at what cost has this ‘transformation’ been made? Sure, a certain percentage of the passengers get to travel on these carriers for peanuts, but they are by no means the majority. These airlines sustain their operations by charging, on the whole, unrealistic fares for what they do, and engaging in dubious advertising practices. This results in very many of their passengers facing misleading fares and conditions, along with the plethora of add on charges. The pay and conditions of the crews they employ are lamentable, as is the way that they treat the service companies that they use. Hence these companies and their employees have been screwed into the ground, with their employees bearing the brunt of the situation. Due to this ‘transformation’ the pay and conditions of the employees of handling agents, cleaning companies, catering companies etc have been decimated, all in the name of that 50p fare to Carcassonne! During the last few years that I spent in the airline/handling field I watched the steady deterioration in the pay and conditions of some very loyal, knowledgeable and enthusiastic people. Some peoples careers were destroyed, others had no option but to stay and ‘enjoy this marvellous new landscape’ created by these ‘saviours’ of our industry. The very same ‘saviours who recently would not even provide bottled water to pax trapped for hours on one of their aircraft. Perhaps those fares made doing so unviable!

I was one of those unlucky people to have made the transition from this ‘transformation’ to an alternative sector of the industry, many of my good friends were not so lucky. We are all products of our own experiences and these have a profound effect on the views that we hold. I feel strongly that I have very good reasons for the views that I have on this subject. I sincerely hope that any of us in this industry who do decide to travel on these ‘airlines’ will bear in mind what that cheap seat has cost many of our ‘brethren’. Joe public however, knows no better, but IMO, we should.

Well, thats enough energy expended for today.

the damage they’ve done, and the dubious business practices they employ.

Andy

My point exactly.

There is a God! As usual, the excuse used by MoL in the courts is that because his airline is ‘low cost’ this should be borne in mind in judgements made by the courts in these types of cases. His business model is HIS choice and it should not be a mitigating factor in the decisions made by a regulatory body or a court of law. It comes down to the fact that RYR continues to charge unrealistic fares that do not reflect the true costs of their operation, relying as it does, on a plethora of subsidies, exploitative wages and conditions and exemptions, upon which the foundations of his business model rest.