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Maple 01

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Viewing 15 posts - 391 through 405 (of 411 total)
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  • in reply to: The bombing of Dresden #1356332
    Maple 01
    Participant

    I’m sorry for the chap with connections to Dresden, Dresden, IMO has become part of the folk memory of the ‘passion of the East’ that has frequently been overlooked by non-German Historians (about 2m+ Ethnic Germans killed, many more dispaced as revenge in Czech republic, Poland etc or fleeing the advancing Soviets)

    However, I lived in Berlin for four years, no-one there complained about Allied bombing although they had it for much longer.

    The old ‘no military targets in Dresden’ argument has worn a bit thin I’m sad to say. The AP was the railway station – a military comms node, unless the German Armed Forces had given up using trains. I’d post the picture if I could remember where I put it.

    regards

    -nick

    in reply to: Today, it's Triplanes #1357467
    Maple 01
    Participant

    Great photos Alex,
    Any chance of some more Brisfit photos?

    Regards

    -Nick

    in reply to: The bombing of Dresden #1357985
    Maple 01
    Participant

    I was complaining about the indiscriminate use of inaccurate figures for propaganda purposes – if others are happy about using random figures that’s fine. It was wrong for Irving to lie over Dresden I think it’s equally reprehensible to use false emotive figures over Iraq

    in reply to: The bombing of Dresden #1358141
    Maple 01
    Participant

    I know this is a historical aviation forum but I couldn’t let the following pass without challenging it

    deaths of over 100,000 Iraqi civilians in the last 18 months

    TB47 all over again – even the most anti-war sources give 10,000-15,000 civilian casualties and include insurgents and those killed by the insurgents in their totals – seems some are still falling for the propaganda…….

    http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ – Anti war source, I think they are over-inflating their clams too and trying to use weasel words in their FAQ

    Meanwhile Saddam is known to be responsible for 400,000+ deaths of his own people and a probable grand total of 1M including Iranian dead but Hell – why not ask the guy to takeover again? Would that salve the consciences of the anti-war brigade?

    Try the no-body count http://198.30.156.67/000184.php#000184

    Also not unbiased but you can’t fault their figures

    in reply to: Germany wants the Queen to apologize for bombing them? #1358773
    Maple 01
    Participant

    Creating BS anti-European stories seems all the British Press is any good at these days – another “bash the Germans” story for the Little Englanders to enjoy. The Empire’s gone, the war is over – move on!

    -Nick

    in reply to: The bombing of Dresden #1360242
    Maple 01
    Participant

    As to reaping the whirlwind, the bombload dropped was (I think) 149 times that dropped by Germany. Overkill in every sense of the word

    Hmmm, so Germany should have been alowed to fight a limited war that suited their capabilities and the Allies should only have fought with proportional force?

    They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind.”

    in reply to: The bombing of Dresden #1360251
    Maple 01
    Participant

    I had fun and games with this one a while back on the Third Reich Forum, spent ages finding the AP photograph to dispel the myth that the attack was just against refugees and therefore a warcrime (AP was the railway station – even then some Nazi apologists still weren’t happy with a comms node as target.)

    Then got dragged into ‘the USAAF did precision bombing the RAF were war criminals because of area bombing’ debate – unearthed testimony from a USAAF navigator to say he dropped his bombs 23nm from Dresden that day – wasn’t intended as a criticism of individuals, just that precision bombing by main-force crews in anything than ideal conditions was a joke in 1945. The USAAF used to ‘blind bomb’ off H2X fixes for goodness sake!

    The next thing was the casualty figures given for civilians – David Irving quotes 135,000+ – now you have to understand he’d working to his own Neo-Nazi agenda. At one point claiming more civilians were killed in the bombing of Dresden than in the Concentration camps, but his work on the raid has been thoroughly debunked by the German Government and subsequent historians. The Nazi propaganda ministry inserted a ‘1’ in front of the official figures (so called TB47 IIRC) to try and gain moral equivalence – seems their apologists and those attempting to discredit the Bomber Command (both RAF and USAAF) crews’ memories still like to stick to those fantasy figures. The one small victory I had in all this was that I managed to get the Spatricus history website (used as a research tool by many schools) to correct their casualty figures. ( they’d used Irving’s for some reason)

    The Dresden raid was requested by Stalin and approved by Roosevelt and Churchill, only later did the US and Churchill try to distance themselves as a response to political pressure, in part generated by sympathy generated in neutral countries, and within the home populations by the high casualty figures – but they were Nazi propaganda.

    Two points here – firstly, although 35,000 is a huge number and all loss of life is regrettable it’s less than the estimates for the Hamburg raids – why is Dresden made a symbol of the Allies ‘war crimes’? Was it its undefended nature? – most of the flak had been withdrawn and either sent to Berlin to bolster their defences or to the Oder front. But that was a OKW decision and to complain that attacking an undefended city (Bomber command couldn’t have known it was undefended anyway) smacks of wanting a level playing field in war.’ It’s not fair’ is a cry, as if it was somehow unsporting for the Allies to use their technological and material advantages against Nazi Germany

    Secondly if the war was nearly over why hadn’t Germany surrendered? No, the National Socialists were determined to keep on to the bitter end – why should they be given any respite? If Dresden was to be avoided all they had to do was surrender- they didn’t so responsibility rests with them not the Allies.

    So to get back to the original question

    Yes, I could justify the sacrifices of the crews on this and any other WW2 mission – The Allies were crusading against one of the greatest menaces to civilisation the world has ever know and to denigrate their memory as many in the press seem keen to do is despicable IMO. Even worse is their memory being used as a political football by both the left and the extreme right.

    Regards

    -nick

    in reply to: [B]WW II P47 photographs.[/B] #1362396
    Maple 01
    Participant

    Thank-you kind sir!

    in reply to: Aircraft Dumped & buried at Kenley? (2004 Zombie) #1366547
    Maple 01
    Participant

    Snapper, I’m rougher than that even, used to live on High Leas and my brother lived up Tower Hill! I now live in Overstrand – dead posh! Are you still in Beccles?

    Just to keep on the Aviation theme and buried stuff, when I was in Berlin in 1990s we were about to hand Gatow over to the Germans so they did a magnetic sweep of the runway area and cleared tons of stuff including weapons and kit left-over from the fighting in 45. I remember a FW-190 wing and an undercart leg from a Ju-88. 90 odd armed panzerfausts were also found in a bunker I passed every day to get to work! The back lane also yielded (I think) several tons of unfused bombs

    I kept a few bits myself, the only thing I still have is the co2 bottle from a Luftwaffe lifejacket.

    The Golf course at Gatow was originally an aircraft dump (there are photos doing the rounds that prove it) and rumour has it that they were bulldozed over shortly after the RAF took over to make the course so there shoud still be quite a few bits there – Ironically enough it’s now the Luftwaffe museum so perhaps they should get digging

    -Nick

    in reply to: Aircraft Dumped & buried at Kenley? (2004 Zombie) #1366751
    Maple 01
    Participant

    Could be Coney, you know ‘difficult’ the local accent can be at times! Haya gora lite? and all that (My Aunt used to live on Coney Hill – not that it’s got anything to do with it),

    Boney’s (or Coney’s) island was a large clump of trees on the middle of the common. Rumour was that the Americans dumped all sorts of stuff including unused ordinance there in 1945*. Apparently shortly after the war the locals used to go digging and find USAAF tools and other odds and ends up there until some poor sod blew himself up.

    *Pinch of salt warning there, I was a 12 year-old school kid when I first heard that story in the late seventies. Who knows how exaggerated the story had become? I mean wasn’t the nearest USAAF base Bungay? (Home of the 446th Bomb group ‘The Bungay Buccaroos’) – why drag the stuff 5 miles up the road when you could have dumped it near where the otter sanctury is now? If anything was dumped there I’d say it was done by the RAF

    Haven’t heard about the Home Guard stuff or a murder – tell me more! Is the control tower still standing? I used to dream of buying it and converting it into a house..…….well, there wasn’t much else to do in Beccles in the 1970s!

    -Nick

    in reply to: Aircraft Dumped & buried at Kenley? (2004 Zombie) #1367730
    Maple 01
    Participant

    Snapper, you’re not talking about -‘Boney’s Island’ are you? Went there a few times in the early 1980s despite the warnings about UXB – all I found was a Victorian rubbish dump! Stll, they may have dug a pit and used the old dump as landfill

    Wasn’t Ellough home to 618 Sqn High Ball Mosquitos and 810 Sqn Barracudas, Warwicks, Walruses? It would be great if some bits were burried in the dump

    -nick

    in reply to: Hawker Hart family survivors #1368423
    Maple 01
    Participant

    I think some Fury/Hind airframes have been found on the dump at Kabul Airport (saw something in a mag recently)

    Seems they are in a minefield with some Sov era iron

    -Nick

    in reply to: KI 100 #1405535
    Maple 01
    Participant

    Flood, your link comes up ‘forbidden’ is it against the law to look at IJAF aircraft photos in the UK? 😮

    in reply to: "Hello Rabbit Leader…" #1424434
    Maple 01
    Participant

    ‘Goud aftrnoon’

    in reply to: "Hello Rabbit Leader…" #1424439
    Maple 01
    Participant

    Kto jest Chistopher Biggins?

    Can’t quite remember, who is he? or where is he?

Viewing 15 posts - 391 through 405 (of 411 total)