In response to the earlier answer,there were also private purchase goggles used,usually Luxors.The ones on the cover of the picture post featuring Keith Gillman are Luxor 12’s.I have all the goggles from that period,Luxor 12’s,11’s,111’s,111a’s,1v’s,1va’s & 1vb’s.

So it appears unlike middle to late War goggles (MKV111) where these were worn generally by all Airman. The Battle of Britain period Goggles (various type were worn), on suitability to the Airman’s choice.

Poles in Defence of Britain, Robert Gretzyngier, lists the following claims for 27/9/40.

Ferić V6681/RF*B 09.20 Bf 109 dest Horsham He 111 dest. Between Croydon and Gatwick.
Frantisek R4175/RF*R 09.20 He 111 dest Horsham Bf 110 dest Gatwick.

No Ju 88 claims in the morning. Kent and Urbanowicz (2) claim Ju 88 in the afternoon 15.25 London – Hastings.

In the text.

….the other wingman, Ferić, being left on his own. Later described the action:

“I attacked an Me 109, and after a short burst enemy aircraft exploded into flames and crashed to earth. I then approached the bombers who were already being attacked by some of our aircraft. I attacked a Heinkel and fired three short bursts. The pilot was evidently killed as the machine dived without smoke or flames, and crashed between Croydon and Gatwick. As my machine had been hit by machine gun bullets I returned to Northolt.”

The aircraft attacked by many Hurricanes which crashed close to the area described by P/O Ferić would be the Ju 88A-1 Werk Nr. 8095, coded 3Z+HK, of 2./KG 77 which went down in flames and crashed on Folly Farm at South Holmwood.

Hurricane Ace Josef Frantisek The True story, Jiri Rajlich.

All of their adventures deserve description, but Frantisek’s is also worth mention. First, in the Horsham area, he attacked a bomber he identified as an He 111. He reported that he first set on fire the starboard, and then the port engine Soon afterwards he added a Bf 110 destroyed in unusual circumstances – when he failed to force it to land at an English airfield.

In his entry in the squadron diary Frantisek wrote laconically again: “27.9.40. We flew up to the He 111s and attacked with kpt. Forbes. I set one on fire, then on rear right Me 109 – I broke to right and below me Me 110s, about six. I shot one down and escorted it to the airfield where it burnt out.”

How much drama is hidden behind these brief words? Let us try to reconstruct it.

As regards his first victim, this could not have been an He 111 (those belonged to KG 53 that headed for Bristol and 303 Sqn did not engage them), but one of four Ju 88s from I.IKG 77. According to the circumstances described in their combat reports it seems that pilots of 303 Sqn took part in the shooting down of three Ju 88s, while the fourth one was downed by the British AA fire over Cudham. Ju 88A-1 (WNr. 8095, 3Z+HK) from 2./KG 77 was first hit in the starboard engine which started to burn. It jettisoned its bombs and immediately afterwards the fighters set its other engine on fire The crew started to bale out, and the uncontrolled machine crashed at 9.30 at Folly Farm, South Holmwood near Dorking, and was destroyed by fire Uffz. R Schumann and Uffz. H-J. Tenholt were captured unhurt, while Uffz. A. Ackermann was wounded Uffz.Wilhelm Menningmann was missing. The aircraft was attacked by more RAF fighters and it is not impossible that F/O Miroslaw Ferić participated in its destruction, although like Frantisek he misidentified his enemy as an “He 111” (Ferić’s victim apparently crashed about 9.20 between Croydon and Gatwick,these being located to north-east and south-east of Dorking, respectively). Frantisek could have participated in this success on two accounts: the circumstances of combat were similar, and Horsham, where he claimed his success, is only 15 km south of Dorking.

The second one was Ju 88A-1 (WNr. 8109, 3Z+BL) from 3./KG 77 which left formation with its starboard engine damaged and fell to repeated attacks of many fighter aircraft that hit, among others, the cockpit where the entire crew was located Eventually it crashed at 9.20 at North End Lodge, East Grinstead In the hopeless situation the airmen started to bale out, but only one of four was saved Fw. A. Brautigam fell into trees and with a broken leg he ended up in the nearby famous Queen Victoria Hospital. Uffz. H. Winkelmann, who landed by parachute at Hartfield (south-east of East Grinstead) also ended up there. His head wound was so serious, however, that he died in the hospital the same day The third crew member, Fw. R Precht, baled out but his parachute failed to open (he also fell near Hartfield), while Uffz. H. Kasing, probably killed while still on board did not attempt to leave the plane. According to later British analyses the destruction of this Ju 88 could have been shared, among others, by S/Ldr Ernest A. McNab, F/Lt Gordon R McGregor, F/O De Peyser Brown, P/O Beverley E. Christman, all from 1 Sqn RCAF (all four of them claimed a Ju 88 shared destroyed at 9.20 south of Kenley) and P/OJan Zumbach from 303 Sqn (at 9.20 he fired at an “He 111”). Here, again, we have accounts of damaging the starboard engine and the place of the crash, East Grinstead is a mere 18 km north-east of Horsham.

The third downed Junkers was Ju 884-1 ({Nr. 21.64,32+IK) from 2./KG 77. Seriously damaged by fighters, while attempting to get back to France with both engines shot up, it ended in the English Channel about 9.40 just a short way from Lydd near Dungeness, Kent. The crew baled out before the impact. Uffz. G Schmidt and Uffz. H. Sergocki were picked up uninjured and taken prisoner while Flg. W Krebs and Uffz. W Hertlein probably drowned It seems that among numerous pilots who fired at this aircraft were P/O Patrick P. C Barthropp (claimed an “He 111” at 9.20 south-east of Mayfield) and Sgt Cyril F. Babbage (claimed a Ju 88 at 9.20 north of Dungeness) both from 502 Sqn; Sgt John S. Gilders Ju 88 at 9.30 south of Dungeness) and Sgt Norman V Glew (“Do 17” at 9.15 south of Dungeness) both from 72 Sqn; and F/Lt Athol S. Forbes from 303 Sqn (“He 111” at 9.20 off the east coast of Kent). But in this case Frantisek’s participation is questionable as Lydd is over 90 km from Horsham. It is not impossible, however, that Frantisek may have fired at it and left it to be finished by others, who then contributed to its definitive end After all he attacked with F/Lt Forbes who is listed among those who observed its crash near the coast.

Many thanks for a detailed reply Antoni,
Would you come to the conclusion that Feric and Frantisek were the favourites in the demise of ju88 (8095) but favoring Josef Frantisek?

He landed not far from Saddlescombe Farm.

By coincidence, I am currently in touch with his family.

What is your interest?

Hi Andy, im going back to a previous thread,a cigarette pouch i purchased at Shoreham aerojumble. containing part of a singed parachute. apparently belonging to a polish pilot that crashed in the Halisham area. not that familiar with the Sussex area is there a possibility that K.Wunsche had landed somewhere in Halisham?

i know its one of those is it or isn’t it scenarios but who knows, the stall holder is a regular at the aero jumble and seemed genuine. (as they do)

The previous thread went:

“Hi can anyone help with the names of the Pilots from these Battle of Britain crash sites listed below.
I have below dates of some of the crash sites in the Halisham Rural district area,that i have found so far.
The reason being i am trying to trace whether there were any Polish Pilot fatalities in and around the surrounding area of Halisham (West Sussex.)
The only crash sites i have found so far are for……..

DATE AIRCRAFT AREA PILOT NAME
———————————————————————-
17/7/40 Spitfire Hempstead lane Halisham Pilot D.Taylor

16/8/40 Spitfire Dover House Possingworth No Name

09/9/40 Hurricane Squires field Pevensey No Name

13/9/40 Perrywood No Name

27/9/40 Hurricane Station Rd Halisham Pilot Percy Burton

07/10/40 Spitfire Court Fm,Lullington

27/10/40 Spitfire Battle Rd Halisham Pilot Edshall

30/10/40 Hurricane Blackford Fm, Herstmoneeux No Name

01/12/40 Hurricane Whiligh wood east Hoathly No Name

07/12/40 Spitfire Foreshore Pevensey Bay No Name

12/12/40 Old Park Fm Arlington No Name

Some of the above (i Know) are not from the Battle of Britain Period.and also have spaces i.e. no aircraft name or Pilot name,hopefully someone with the knowledge of this district can help to fill in the missing spaces.
Thus uncovering a possible Polish airman’s name, with the above or any other site in the Halisham District and surrounding areas,

Thanks for your reply, sorry about the West Sussex bit, i was meant to put East. (Thank God for Sat Navs)

The reason for my post being that i had purchased a Tobacco pouch from one of the stalls at your Aerojumbe.apparently the stall holder stated it was from his Grandfather who was an A.R.P. warden in the rural district of Halisham, (Seemed the Genuine type) he received the pouch from a Polish airman maybe as a souvenir, (how and why no body knows.) the stallholder had listed the possible crash sites that he had researched thus far.

I know that with all these things that you take a gamble on what you buy, but at the end of it you like to think you have a genuine buy.
Im one of those that you cant just throw something like this away, as it could be the genuine article, (who knows) so i will research this as best i can to maybe salvage its possible history.and keep in safe hands.

I did noticed on the list that you kindly posted, the Polish pilots name Sgt Maciejowski, who you had down as his Hurricane crashing on the 30/10/40 at Blackford Farm.would you know anything else on this crash. i.e.was the Hurricane a write off? had the pilot landed this aircraft and lost control? had Sgt Maciejowski baled out? and any other info you may have.

One other thing i hadn’t mentioned is inside the Tobacco pouch was a small envelope containing a few fragments of tobacco. also inclosed was a piece of parachute around 6inches by 4.(of irvine type) the outer edges singed.

You never know the A.R.P. warden may of borrowed the pouch for a smoke and forgot to return it(ill keep dreaming)”

I promised to post the proof pages of the ‘Britain at War’ article but the file size was too big. Instead, I have posted below the text of that article although I apologise in advance if it makes for a too large a post! If so, no doubt the mods will delete. Here goes:

“Blue One” Still Missing….

When an excavation over the weekend of 28/29th July 2007 at Albion Parade, Gravesend, by a team of Royal Engineers and RAF personnel failed to find any trace of the Hurricane aircraft or of its pilot, Flt Sgt Eric Williams, lost there on 15 October 1940 it seemed that the mystery of this pilot’s last resting place would endure. Indeed, that was how the situation was described on the official Ministry of Defence news website immediately after those July excavations. Subsequently, however, there have been new developments – prompting us to look further into the sad yet fascinating saga of a still missing Battle of Britain pilot. It is truly a remarkable tale and one where the last chapter remains, as yet, unwritten.

Since early September 1940, 46 Squadron had been operating from RAF Stapleford and participated in the latter half of the Battle of Britain as part of 11 Group Fighter Command. Here, the squadron had taken many casualties along with the tally of victories they had notched up. By 15 October they were surely a tired and battle-weary unit, but still manfully participating in holding the line against the continuing Luftwaffe onslaught. At around 12.30hrs on that date, twelve Hurricanes took off from Stapleford for a patrol. Leading them was Flt Sgt Eric Williams and, although junior in rank to many other squadron pilots, he was arguably one of the most experienced amongst them – having been a fighter pilot since 2 September 1934. An additional factor in Eric’s leadership of the squadron that day may well have been the “fluidity” and almost transient nature of 46 Squadron CO’s around this time. On 6 October, the Commanding Officer,Squadron Leader J R MacLachlan, had been posted away with Squadron Leader A R Collins taking over. By 31 October he had been replaced by Squadron Leader L M Gaunce. The circumstances of these leadership comings and goings is curious to say the least – but that’s another story!

Between 12.57 and 13.08hrs on 15 October 1940, though, three Hurricanes had returned to Stapleford – Blue 2 and Green 2 with oxygen problems and Green 3 with engine problems. Shortly before this, at 12.55hrs, Blue One (Flt Sgt E Williams) with the remainder of the squadron and flying at 15,000ft reported on the R/T that he had spotted twenty to thirty Me 109’s milling overhead at 25,000ft. The squadron commenced to climb as rapidly as possible and were then vectored nine-zero. As the Hurricanes headed eastwards and climbed, the enemy aircraft above them were then able to position themselves between the squadron and the sun and delivered an astern attack from above and out of the sun. It was a classic fighter “bounce”. In this instance, the bouncers had been the Messerschmitt 109’s of Adolf Galland’s Jagdgeschwader 26, “Schlageter”.

As the Messerschmitt’s tore unseen into the Hurricanes that were straining on their propellers to gain altitude, two pilots of the I Gruppe and two pilots of the II Gruppe each claimed a Hurricane as destroyed. Galland, the Geschwader Kommodore, claimed a “Spitfire” in the same combat – the forty sixth victory for this ever-rising star.

In the slashing attack by the Messerschmitts, Oblt Henrici and Uffz Scheidt got their sixth and third aerial victories respectively. Meanwhile, Hptm Adolph and Oblt Grawatsch downed their twelfth and second “kills”. Without doubt, their victims were the Hurricanes of 46 Squadron and whom JG 26 reported to have attacked in the Gillingham/London area. As for Galland, his claim for a Spitfire was in the Rochester/Gillingham area. However, no Spitfire losses that day match this time or location and so it is entirely possible that he, too, engaged the same group of Hurricanes but perhaps mis-identified the type during the heat of battle.

As the Messerschmitts tore through the squadron, Pilot Officer Robert Reid (Green One) was startled to see tracer bullets from nowhere suddenly entering the cockpit of Blue Three and then tracers hitting Blue One (Eric Williams) with some effect. Almost immediately, an Me 109 appeared just fifty feet above him and to the left. Pulling up the nose of his Hurricane he got in a two second burst at the enemy, and saw bullets entering the cockpit and right across its wings causing the Messerschmitt to turn over emitting grey smoke and to spiral down out of control. Reid followed, down to 10,000ft, before pulling out. Red One (Pilot Officer Lefevre) saw what was believed to be the same Me 109 entering the clouds below him at 2 – 4,000ft, although due to the cloud conditions it was impossible to see the enemy crash but it was estimated the location was in the vicinity of Rochester and the Medway towns. In just a matter of seconds, the engagement was all over. 46 Squadron had been broken up and badly mauled, losing three Hurricanes and having one more damaged. Pilot Officer Gunning was dead, and Flight Sgt Williams was missing. Meanwhile, Sgt Gooderham had baled out with facial injuries, a bruised arm and a damaged knee.
(Note: although a recent MOD press release attributed the loss of Flt Sgt Williams directly to Adolf Galland, there is no definite evidence of this)

On the ground at Gravesend it was lunchtime, and Walter Holden was just about to leave his work at the timber depot of W R Barton & Sons Ltd in Albion Terrace when he heard the roar of a descending aircraft. Although he could not see it, he realized from the sound that it was headed towards either the River Thames or nearby Albion Parade where his firm’s timber wharf was situated. The noise of the impact told him all he needed to know and he immediately rushed to the scene. By the time he arrived there it was obvious something had happened and he was surprised to find the Fire, Police, ARP and Ambulance services already there. Making himself known, he was allowed into Barton’s Wharf and found a gaping hole torn in the shed roof. No timber was stored there at the time, and in the soft dirt floor beneath the damaged roof was a large imprint with shreds of metal strewn around. Water, fuel and oil was bubbling and seeping into the crater. Of the pilot there was no trace, and those initially on the scene had no idea whether he had baled out or had failed to escape from his aircraft.

Gradually, the facts were pieced together and it became clear that the pilot of this aircraft had not been accounted for. At first, there was some speculation that he may have fallen unseen and with an unopened parachute into the adjacent river – some half a mile wide at that point. Investigations at the site, though, soon revealed the grim truth when a Royal Engineer party dug down into the crater and recovered part of a Flight Sergeant’s sleeve badge. There was only one contender; Flight Sergeant Eric Williams.

Upon Eric’s failure to return to Stapleford that afternoon after Pilot Officer Reid had seen the tracer bullets smashing into the Hurricane, enquiries were immediately made by the Squadron Adjutant as to what had become of him. Police, Hospitals, the Observer Corps, military units and other RAF stations in the region were canvassed. No information was forthcoming, although the report of a Hurricane landing with combat damage at RAF Hawkinge gave some initial promise but turned out, instead, to be a Hurricane and pilot of 257 Squadron. With the other 46 Squadron losses accounted for, and the known circumstances of the Albion Wharf crash established, it was concluded that Eric Williams was missing in action. Accordingly, the standard terse Air Ministry telegram was sent to Eric’s wife, Joan, notifying her that her husband was missing as the result of air operations. Eventually, after the passage of some months, his death was presumed. In fact, the RAF had already established with some clarity the location of his crash and, indeed, the place of his death. The 46 Squadron Operations Record Book for 15 October 1940 was unambiguous on the matter:

“F/Sgt E Williams was missing from this patrol, but it was later confirmed that his machine had crashed near Gravesend and his death had occurred.”

The Casualty File for Eric Williams was equally clear, and enabled the RAF’s Air Historical Branch to much later confirm:

“The Hurricane aircraft (V6550) piloted by Flight Sergeant Williams was shot down at approximately 13.00hrs on 15 October 1940. The aircraft crashed onto a wharf, approximately one mile east of Gravesend Ferry Railway Station.”

Unfortunately, Joan Williams wasn’t told. All she then knew was that he was missing, presumed dead. Later, and to almost draw some kind of “official” line under it, his name was added to the RAF’s Runnymede Memorial to airmen who are missing and who have no known grave. Indeed, there the matter may well have rested had it not been for research conducted by the author and his colleagues during the late 1970’s and early 1980’s.

With the upsurge of interest in researching the losses of Battle of Britain aircraft during that time it was inevitable that interest would, at some time, focus on the Albion Wharf crash. Eye witness accounts like those of Walter Holden abounded from those who were there in Gravesend during 1940 and a certain amount of folklore and legend had grown up – but it was well known that the aeroplane was still buried there, and with its pilot. Local clues, though, were scant but the Kent ARP report gave a starting point:

“15 October 1940. Time of Report: 14.25 hours. One British plane down at Albion Parade. Map Reference 090908. Pilot missing. Plane burnt out. Slight damage to wharf building.”

Already, and from that information alone, it was possible to deduce that the pilot must almost certainly have been Flt Sgt Williams and by the late 1970’s the RAF had confirmed it. Bizarrely, the researchers now knew the final fate of Eric, but, unbeknown to them, his widow still had no clue as to what had become of her husband or how or where he had died. To her he was still just “missing”.

Working with Terry Thompson, then a colleague at Tangmere Aviation Museum, the author and Thompson set about tracking down Eric’s family. It was a long and tortuous process involving a search for wills, birth certificates etc but, eventually, in November 1987 his widow Joan was tracked down and contacted in Ontario, Canada. Re-married, but again a widow, Joan Eddleston was staggered to learn news of what had become of her Eric. So too was Eric’s daughter, Jennifer, who had never known her father – having been born shortly after his untimely death. Jennifer was now a resident of the USA. It was a tragic and yet comforting situation – especially when it became clear just how important this news was to the family. At last there was now some kind of partial “closure”. However unsatisfactory the location of his last resting place might be, it was at least now known to them.

By 1987, and when contact with the family was established, the Protection of Military Remains Act 1986 was already in place in the UK. This meant that the expressed wishes of Eric’s next of kin to have his Hurricane recovered and his body decently buried in a marked grave could only be met legally if a licence were granted to a recovery team by the MOD, but in cases where the presence of human remains is known or suspected it is not the policy of the MOD to grant such licenses. Notwithstanding the fact that the site owners were agreeable to a recovery taking place, it could not occur in the absence of a PMRA licence. For a while, the idea of bringing Eric Williams home had stalled.

With the possibility of recovering Eric for burial being cruelly dashed once the exact crash location had been established and next of kin traced, one of the team of researchers who had worked on the project, Dave Smith, organized the erection of a small memorial plaque to Eric in the nearby Gordon Gardens. Under the circumstances, it was the very least that could be done and it did offer some further measure of comfort for Eric’s widow and daughter when they were able to visit the memorial in 1988.

By the late 1980’s, however, it became clear that the long term future of the site as a timber wharf and storage area was in doubt. The busy waterfront activity on this part of the Thames was a thing of the past, and the surrounding buildings fell into disuse and dereliction. Eventually, the timber yard closed down – but not before the original wartime earthen floor had been concreted over. Realising that it was potentially now-or-never, the team of enthusiasts who had worked towards the recovery of Eric made another attempt, officially, to get something done. Again, though, efforts were stalled. Instead, by 1995 and with the future of the site becoming increasingly doubtful, one of the “team” (Mark Kirby) took matters further and obtained the following written submission from Eric’s widow:

“To Whom It May Concern:
I give my approval for Mark Kirby to locate and recover the body of Flight Sergeant Eric Edward Williams, Service No 562960, killed in action on 15th October 1940 and whose plane is believed to have crashed at Barton’s Timber Wharf, Gravesend, Kent.
Signed: Joan Eddleston 19 June 1995”

Walter Holden, the elderly witness, again accompanied Mark and others to the site and pointed out, absolutely emphatically, where the fighter had disappeared into the ground – just inside the yard gate and just off the Albion Parade roadway. Then, in the 1990’s, the building was still standing and little had changed apart from the recent addition of a concrete floor and the extension of the Thames riverbank when the post-war sea wall was constructed and thereby increasing the distance from the actual crash site to the river. However, the situation was academic. Notwithstanding Joan’s wishes, and the compliance of the site owner, nothing could proceed without a licence. And no licence was forthcoming.

Frustrated, the team ultimately wrote to the Ministry of Defense in 1997 seeking an “official” attempt at recovery. The result was not encouraging, and the MOD declined to act and stated the following in writing to a team member:

“We have always felt that if we make an exception for one then the floodgates would be opened; the resources and cost involved in such an operation would be too horrendous to contemplate. We just do not have those resources.”

Again, the project had hit a brick wall. Then, something happened that sparked yet more pressure on the authorities to finally do something about Eric Williams. On Sunday 8th February 1998 two “enthusiasts” gained access to the now derelict site and carried out an unauthorized and unlicensed dig with a mechanical excavator. They found nothing. Again, the MOD were prodded into action by this surprise turn of events and were asked to review their position viz-a-viz an official MOD dig. Ultimately, the site was surveyed by the Royal Engineers and RAF who reported to the RAF Personnel Management Agency at RAF Innsworth on their findings. By March 1999 the MOD had responded, stating that no recovery would be attempted on the basis of the difficulties associated with the site and the potential costs. Blue One would remain missing.

For almost ten years the matter rested. In that time Eric’s widow had sadly passed away, her wish to have her husband recovered and buried not having been brought to fruition in her lifetime. Meanwhile, the site and surrounding area descended into further decay and dereliction and the buildings of the former Barton’s Timber Wharf were demolished leaving just the concrete floor. Hardly a fitting resting place for one of “The Few”. Again, the sequence of events took yet another turn.

In October 2006 it was revealed that the site, finally, was due for extensive re-development with luxury riverside apartments scheduled for the Albion Parade site with architects Kiran Curtis Associates drawing up detailed proposals. Local aviation historian, Lewis Deal MBE, became aware of the plans and, knowing the existence of the buried Hurricane and its pilot, mounted a campaign to have something done before Eric’s remains were concreted over. At once, the team who had worked so hard on the case since the early 1980’s came together and offered whatever help they could to Lewis in his laudable quest. Ultimately, Lewis pressed for the MOD and developers to concede that, now, something must be done. Accordingly, plans were put in hand to take matters forward.

Somewhat surprisingly, though, it was not to be an “official” recovery attempt per-se. Instead, a licence was granted to Lewis Deal as a private individual to carry out the recovery. However, the RAF and Army would assist with resources and a military presence. As the plans gathered momentum, the author and Mark Kirby re-established contact with Eric’s relatives, conducted a UK-based cousin to the crash site and prepared a large dossier of material for Eric’s daughter, Jennifer, in the USA. Unable to trace or contact the relatives themselves, the MOD called on the services of the author to put the parties in touch – a request that was gladly complied with. At last, it seemed, things were moving forward. With the pretty precise information that the “old” team had gathered there was a high degree of confidence that the site could be precisely located – or, at least, sufficiently close to allow it to be found using the collective expertise of highly experienced aviation archaeologists, high-tech equipment and a team who were all highly motivated and dedicated to the task in hand. Unfortunately, that was not to be.

In a move that surprised the original team, and indeed the family, it was announced during July 2007 that a recovery attempt would be made in the next few days. Indeed, Wing Commander Lainchbury, Comandant of the MOD Fire Services Central Training Establishment at Manston appeared on Meridian TV to state that the wreckage had been detected at just a few meters and that work would be carried out over the weekend of 28/29th July 2007. However, when the author called the family to discuss this news they were considerably surprised and knew nothing of such a plan. After a telephone call to the MOD they were assured that work was not going ahead as the RAF/RE team had not yet located the buried wreckage. Since this was contrary to what had been stated on Meridian TV, and in light of yet another TV report which showed preparation work at the site, the family again contacted the MOD who, this time, conceded that work was indeed going ahead. At short notice the UK based family members drove to the excavation site to witness proceedings over the duration of that weekend.

Members of the original team who had worked on the case also traveled to the site but, on arrival, were denied access by RAF Police present on the gate and a large screen was thrown up around the yard. However, it soon became very apparent to those of that team outside the periphery – and who could gain a very limited view from certain vantage points – that the dig was not in the correct place. It seemed that the recovery team may have been misled by the location of the existing sea wall (although they were aware of the 30 metre extension of the bank) and the subsequent demolition of the building. The reference point of the bank was not in the position it sat during 1940. This fact was clearly evident from aerial photographs of the site in the 1940’s as compared to those currently available on Google Earth. Unfortunately, the digging team did not engage in dialogue with those who had extensive and long standing knowledge of the site and, indeed, of such challenging recovery operations. Ultimately, by the end of day two on Sunday 29th July nothing had been found. The detected readings were found to be the remains of an old Thames barge, and it had already been long established by the original team that Thames barges were pulled up alongside the old sea wall, sunk and then in-filled and covered over. These formed the basis of the post-war sea wall construction. The very discovery of the barge, therefore, would alone seem to have indicated an incorrect position. However, before the site was closed down, a small service of commemoration was held which involved a moving fly past by a Battle of Britain Memorial Flight Hurricane. It was not, though, the end of matters.

Writing to the author on 30 July 2007, Wing Commander Lainchbury stated that:

“The only potential solution would involve an unacceptable scale of impact upon both the local businesses and infrastructure and would require a significant amount of ultra-expensive plant. Even then the chances of success would be no better than 50/50. Accordingly, I have recommended that no further licenses to excavate this site are issued to anyone and that the file should therefore be closed. This view is supported by the current landowner and the future developers.” Later, and on the MOD’s own news website, Wing Commander Lainchbury is quoted as saying: “I can rule out us ever going back.”

To all intents and purposes, therefore, a line was officially being drawn under the case. To the family, the view was expressed that the buried wreckage was “too deep” to recover and had been “sucked under the Thames” by years of tidal action. These are not views that, in the author’s opinion, have any credibility – either from an historical or scientific perspective. Unfortunately, there was another regrettable twist in store when, on 30 July 2007, The Guardian newspaper carried an article headlined: “Battle of Britain Pilot’s Remains Recovered at Fourth Attempt”. Although they had apparently acted upon MOD press office information the newspaper published an apology to the family on 1st August.

Not satisfied with the dig outcome, especially in light of their certainty that the impact point had been entirely missed, the original team – in conjunction with the next of kin – felt strongly that the search should not now be abandoned. This view was cemented as team members escorted Eric’s grand-daughter Robyn Fergus to the site during early August when she visited from the USA. It was decided that Mark Kirby would apply for a licence to recover the aircraft on behalf of the family and as Joan had originally wished. At the same time, the author was formally appointed by the next of kin to represent the family’s interests with the MOD. Given that the licence holder, Lewis Deal, had written to the author to say that he no longer had an interest in pursuing the matter it was clear that further work could not be conducted by the team by working with Lewis Deal under his existing license. Thus, Mark Kirby’s application was formally submitted on 25 August. On Battle of Britain Day, 2007, came the depressing news that Mark’s application was being refused on the grounds that a licence was already in place to another party and it was not the MOD’s policy to issue duplicate licenses in respect of specific sites. Not unreasonably, the team took this statement from the MOD to mean that the licence referred to was that in place for Mr Deal, but then the MOD wrote by e-mail on 21 September to say that the authors “assumptions about the identity of the licence holder was not correct”. This puzzling piece of information persuaded the team to again consult Mr Deal, but before that could be done there was yet another twist in the increasingly bizarre quest to recover Eric Williams when, the very next day, on Saturday 22 September, the same MOD officer telephoned the family to say that yet another recovery attempt was being made to recover the Hurricane that day – starting immediately! Stunned by this sudden and unexpected piece of news the family members drove at once to the site. Again, digging over a two day period yielded absolutely nothing but mud, rubble and scrap iron – and not a trace of the Hurricane or of Eric. Again, one of the original team members who had been instrumental in the adjacent memorial, and who had a veritable wealth of knowledge and experience, was overlooked as he vainly tried to impart the vitally important information he had. He was not allowed into the site. Interpretation of maps, aerial photographs, the measuring of fixed locations on the ground and the use of GPS makes an approximation of the site position relatively easy, especially when used in conjunction with crucial and invaluable eye witness information from one who worked at the wharf but who is now long since dead. Indeed, the points excavated thus far seemed to be off track by a significant margin when compared against building and site boundaries, fixed reference points and the testimony of William Holden who had been pretty emphatic about the crash position.

This surprise excavation was conducted by none other than Wing Commander David Lainchbury who, according to newspaper reports, was acting on information that had come to light from a “new” witness. Against the background of Lainchbury’s earlier and very definite statements about the future of the site then this news of a re-dig was rather astonishing. Certainly, the spot excavated was much nearer to the actual crash site – but again it was missed. As it turned out, Wing Commander Lainchbury was now the licence holder, the licence remaining in force for one year. Again, the new “dig” was only a quasi-military affair and followed on from a great deal of debate about the case, and the crash location, on an historic aviation discussion forum. Unfortunately, at the time of writing this article, the MOD and David Lainchbury remain resistant to the idea of interested parties meeting to discuss the case, although it is a discussion that could surely bring a wealth of knowledge and expertise to bear and perhaps prevent further ongoing and rather blind stabs in the dark to try to locate the buried remains. Before long, it will be too late. Eric and his Hurricane will disappear beneath concrete and steel, and under piles driven right through the crash location. In 1940, the Royal Engineer party gave up digging when it became too dangerous at eighteen feet. Later, a party from 49 Maintenance Unit (RAF) visited to clear away what little remained there. Rounds of .303 ammunition were thrown into the river and pieces of wing structure taken away and dumped at ITC Sandling Park, not being worth conveying back to their RAF Faygate depot. Before they left, the squad probed into the crater with a boat hook and metal pipe, just inside the yard entrance, and struck a solid mass of wreckage at twenty feet. That is where it lays to this day.

At time of writing, the case remains in a state of apparent impasse although a small remembrance event organized by the original team will be held at Eric’s nearby memorial on 11 November 2007 and will be attended by his daughter, Jennifer, the local MP, Adam Holloway, and others involved in the project over a span of many years. It will be an emotive event and hard, surely, not to reflect on Wing Commander David Lainchbury’s earlier statement that any future attempt will stand less than a 50/50 chance of success. The odds faced by “The Few” were considerably shorter than that, but Eric Williams and his like did not give up. Neither should we.

A great detail of accounts makes things a lot clearer, i only live a few miles away from the crash location, i will get down there over the next few days and attempt to get some photos of the area.

Lets hope one day, it will all come to a happy conclusion for the Williams family.

Lets also hope that the (experience and knowledge of the archeologists) are given permission to help with the next excavation

For WNr.5331 we have:

• Fw190A-3 – WNr.0135331 – TP+ME – coded 3+ (white 3) of 4./JG2 – 100% loss, Bindon Hill, Lulworth Cove, Dorset (near Portland), England on 21-Oct-42. Flew into hillside in bad visibility. Loss report lists enemy AA-fire. Blitz lists WNr.533. Fw.Werner Brychy Killed. [sources: Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.11; Ring, JG2 loss list, p.9; Blitz, Then & Now, p.181 txt]

Cheers
Pete

Many thanks to (Pete and Beufighter V1) both accounts both seem to fit the details given.and as always a thank you for everyone’s time and interest given in this thread.
Brad

Fw190A-5 – WNr.0152697 – SJ+FT – 2./SKG10 – 100% loss, Henhurst Farm, Staplehurst, Kent, England on 16-Apr-43 after a combat mission. Emergency landing in UK after becoming lost. Oblt.K.-Hans Klahn, Staffelkapitän killed. [Source: Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #9)-Vol.16; The Blitz, Then & Now, p.247 txt]

I have around 74 Fw190 losses recorded in the UK…

Cheers
Pete

Hi Pete the reason for my asking the question is as a previous thread i had entered,is that i have come across a relic FW190 Grip,that when purchased it had a label on it that read.
FW190 0533
October 42
Ref.ref.76.Bry.
24 Aug 1976
The previous owner also quoted the FW190 was shot down over England.
(as always you do attempt to source the possible aircraft,knowing its history may of been lost forever)
It came from a good source so fingers crossed.
Would you have anything listed to help to pinpoint the above details? (obviously in your own time)