At Steve Patterson’s request, I put my decision to the other moderators of this forum, and all three of them have agreed that it should remain LOCKED.
Becka
I can’t ask for more than that. I just hope the moderators will be as understanding when I have a thread that doesn’t agree with me. Of course, I don’t plan on getting caught.
Steve
Look again at the far side of the plane. Sure looks to be two sets of prop blades showing.
Dan
I also thought there were two sets of props showing on the far side, but after review I’ve changed my mind. What looks like the second prop isn’t the right size, shape or color.
I’m not convinced it has got 3 engines i’d go for 2. It looks like there is a ridge in the ground beside the concrete and as the shadow hits it it gives the impression of another engine. I think the angle of the sun makes it look deceiving, just my opinion.
I’m going to concur that in my opinion this B-17 has only got 2 engines. My bet is a hanger queen that was converted into a squadron hack. The only reason you would remove the outboard nacelle and fair it over was if you were going to fly. Removing all the turrets add to this theory, with the idea that they probably stripped every last ounce of weight off the old girl.
So, you remove the outboard two engines, but fair the leading edge to reduce drag. You then remove every gun and turret and armor plate, which no doubt saves many thousands of pounds, not to mention that you’re not going to add bombs and bullets. Also, the B-17 probably has a rather large fuel factor, so you could probably cut that way back, as we don’t really care about range. I’ve just looked up that a B-17 could carry approx. 2700 gallons of Avgas. That’s over 16,000 lbs. of fuel. Add 5000 lbs of bombs and the B-17 would fly at a gross weight of close to 52,000 lbs.
Let’s start with an empty B-17, at about 33,000 lbs. We loose the two engines, props and hardware, armor plate, chin turret, top turret, and ball turrets, approx. 13 50 cal. machine guns and other loose fixtures and you probably save at least 11,000 lbs.
So, our two engined B-17 now weights 22,000 lbs. Let’s add 300 gallons a side and put some oil in the engines (always a good idea) to take us to just under 26,000 lbs. That’s less than the gross weight of a B-25.
Half the weight, with half the horsepower. Yea, make sure the CG is within limits and I’ll bet she’ll fly.
Now see what you’ve done Nick, with that silly avatar of yours? Setter’s gone all twitch, and the real Melv is probably going through some sort of identity theft depression.
Change it back, please…
There’s a Rearwin being preserved at the moment in Popham. Lovely museum.
Hey, who pinched my drink!
I’ll have anotherrrr, p]ease…….you hold her lemons………
Snapper, I never wanted Steve Connor to leave, but I stand by my right to question his statement about the height of the passing Spitfire. Who knows why he made his ridiculous claim, but I think it’s wrong to represent fantasy as fact. If I had got my facts wrong I would expect others to correct me (without my having to retort with profanity). I don’t know Steve Connor, and I have nothing personal against the man, but his claim was false and I believe that has been shown.
As for the bridge scene mentioned earlier, this is covered in “How they made Piece of Cake” by Robert Eagle and Herbie Knott. The bridge is Winston Bridge in Co. Durham and “is the largest single-span stone bridge in Britain…”
I’d like a ginny and tonic, please…
Well, thats me in the dog house for stirring all this up. All I wanted to do was find out who posted the clip originally cos I had some web details of sites that had it on and werent tipping the hat so to speak.
Perhaps if some of the comments hadnt been made, it wouldnt have got to this stage.
Might easier for all concerned if the thread was removed ?
Sorry guys
Wouldn’t be much of a forum if we instantly removed every thread that caused anyone offense. I view it more like Parliament or Congress, where we can have civil debate over opposing issues.
We’ve all appreciated Steve Connor’s work so perhaps we can honour his wishes and let the matter drop now?
Thanks,
Rob
Rob, this thread would have been over long ago, if not for Mr. Connor’s comment that the Spitfire passed over their heads at more than 50 feet. Why would he make such a statement, when the evidence so clearly shows it to be untrue. This was no illusion created by a long focal length lens, this was a good old fashioned buzz job – plane and simple.
I mean, it isn’t as if Ray Hannah didn’t know he was being filmed? Personally I love the shot, and the flying, but I would not have done it because it leaves NO room for error. One little distraction in the cockpit or gust of wind and this could have ended badly.
My objection is to the obvious falsehood of saying this pass occured at 50′ (or more). It didn’t. Mr. Connor should retract his statement and issue an apology to the forum.
Just for reference here’s what a pass looks like at about 25′.
I could try and be clever, but as you weren’t there, and I didn’t duck, I think my opinion bears more weight than your amateur sleuthing.
People like you are the reason I am not making programmes about aircraft any more.
Well, I’m not sure what you mean by “people like me” being the reason you don’t make aviation programs. You made a statement that the Spitfire passed over your heads at 50′. I said I did not believe your statement, based upon the visual evidence, and my experience as a warbird pilot who has made low passes.
But, as you seem to want to make this personal why don’t we just let the members of this forum decide. Below is a still frame from the video, with the prop disc “added” in the computer.
You be the judge…
Only 54 Days until the First Rearwin Flight!
My last comment on this subject…the Spit was over our heads it was at well over 50 feet, the prop never came anywhere near us.
Sorry, but there’s not a bit of truth in that statement. People on the ground never have a good estimate of the height of low flying aircraft (thank goodness), but I assure you that the Spitfire in question did not climb to 50′ within the time frame of passing the camera. You were probably ducking for cover at the time, but the aircraft, by my estimation, passed about 20′ over your heads. The low point of the pass (directly in front of the camera) appears to be about 10′ above the ground (spinner to earth). You can say 50′ all day long, but the evidence says otherwise.
Don’t forget that Melv will be cooking for anyone who comes down to Popham on 5 March. Noon at the Rearwin Museum, eh, I mean hanger.
Can you buy hotdogs at Tesco’s?