Nonsense. Haven’t you been following the news?

Making investigators get out of vehicles some distance away & walk, while locals & guards were driving through; shooting in the air when investigators walk into an area guards want to keep ’em out of; shouting abuse at investigators; restricting investigators to small parts of the site, while locals were roaming freely across it; allowing looting of the site.

Mad keen? :highly_amused:

Not according to any news I’ve been seeing either on UK channels, Al Jazeera or RT. You are obviously getting the mushroom treatment over the pond.

That south-eastern group has been cut off & fighting for survival for weeks.

Not at the time of the incident as clearly shown on the map.

How long did the plane take to actually start breaking up after being hit? How far do pieces flying at 550-600mph travel?

Latysheve, Dmytrivka, Stepanivka or Marynivka are all potential firing zones for a Kiev-launched SAM.

Re 1 Wrong assumption http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/3605.htm (thanks Lukos 4 the link I ll get back to you on Sunday.SARH ground to air missile coming from behind then climbing over target to attack front of a aircraft and so on .Man you make me laugh, better prepare the sources :highly_amused:.)

It happens. Go to 56:20. Just because it comes from behind, doesn’t mean it explodes behind, particularly if it’s old technology.

Could you please in return find me Ukrainian air defence base full of intact equipment overrun by pro Russian rebels without the fight .

It’s a known and well reported fact that many people in the Ukrainian Army defected with equipment and several vehicles were taken in ambushes.

Re 2 As you already know not all Syrian rebel groups are Islamist fundamentalist there are secular ones as well (FSA springs to mind formed mainly by Syrian army defectors )http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/over-10-000-soldiers-have-deserted-syria-army-says-high-ranking-defector-1.387494 It is basically sunni (secular or not ) vs shia (alawite) conflict. But secular or not almost all Syrian nationals(men) had served in Syrian army and same served in air defence units .Syrian army conscription: 18 years of age for compulsory and voluntary military service; conscript service obligation is 18 months; women are not conscripted but may volunteer to serve; re-enlistment obligation 5 years, with retirement after 15 years or age 40 (enlisted) or 20 years or age 45.
So i dont find your reasons especially convincing .Any more ideas ?
And BTW do you understand Russian if yes I can provide a source with very interesting idea why .

So you’re now making the opposite argument having been proven wrong? As mentioned there are many Ukrainian Army defectors, so it’s likely that they may have had air defence training, which they passed on. Just as members of the FSA may have passed on training, which later ended up with ISIS, who now have Scud missiles too.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/182409#.U9yYAfldWak

Holy hell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Thule_Air_Base_B-52_crash

Given the relative effectiveness of FAE based on the FOAB, those 240kg FAE warheads are roughly equivalent to lobbing Mk-84s downrange.

Lukos don’t be shy we already know what you think :

Originaly posted by Lukos post 629 30 july 22: 30:”Clearly there is some uncertainty. Several places by the same name and someone wanting to drill for shale gas(sic!).

I would call the whole thing a sham. Either a civilian airliner was shot down by Obamists(sic!) or it was sent out as a deliberate designated target.”

Your golden thoughts and deep analyses should be preserve for posterity . But maybe airliner was shot down by EU or Israel ? So man don’t give up ! Please continue !;)

Even Ukrainian intelligence can’t do any better than suggesting an accident. An accident which could only have happened because Ukrainian ATC didn’t follow International Air Warfare Law. If they had, the SDF would have had the radio and transponder frequencies of the airliner and known its exact path and altitude in advance. They also should have tried routing it around the conflict zone, as opposed to diverting it through it and they shouldn’t have been flying military jets in the vicinity. Three clear breaches of International Air Warfare Law right there. Oddly enough, shooting down an airliner accidentally doesn’t constitute a breach.

As for someone who thinks the situation is already proven when there are investigators risking their lives to do just that, well such a person is an idiot.

Cockpit and first class wreckage, view from the port side .Notice shrapnel damage in what looks like cockpit floor.[ATTACH=CONFIG]230732[/ATTACH]
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3839/14530835450_4eeddff506_o.jpg

Noted but what exactly do you think this proves? Depending of flight profiles and fusing a SAM could come in from the top and/or explode at the opposite end of the aircraft. Remember that a Buk is SARH. An AAM launched from a plane with no radar from a lower altitude would fly more or less straight there. So whilst this gives a clue as to the side the missile exploded, that’s all it tells us.

The other difference is that after over 3 years of civil war and overrunning many Syrian(and Iraqi) army basses ISIL and others rebels groups don’t operate any long range SAM systems .So they don’t pose a threat to commercial aircraft at their cruising altitude. Why is that?

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/3605.htm

lukos, didn’t you post the cgi rocket plume (from the weather satellite?) originally as the Ukranian deception? What is this new picture supposed to prove?

I think paralay linked to it first. It was used by the Ukraine at War bloggers to establish a position.