Might be a repost.

The only one of those that relies on Russia for its existence is the first one.
Iraq now likes Russia’s Facebook page but won’t follow it on twitter, and this wasn’t the case back then. Iran does what it can to look after itself, butI would suggest the idea of Iran and Russia being allies is pushing things.
Ally =! Relying on someone for your existence (unless you’re Israel).
http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl/2014/07/exact-location-pinpointed-of-mh17.html
LOL. Turns out this was actually an attempt by Ukrainian Intelligence to scam everybody:
Where are those allies? Actually, which states were allied to Russia and supportive of it’s regional aims at the time of the initial Syrian uprising (as opposed to being slightly more open to Russia now)?
Note, I’m not saying it’s wrong for Russia to have interests in the region or to seek to protect as such, they have been doing so for over 100 years.
Syria, Iraq, Iran.
Eeerr afaik GaN hammers are flying atm on B301 testbed Rafale,
Using them for hammers seems like a very costly ineffective application.
Seeing as this thread is well and truly derailed (and no bad thing) I am chipping in here…
Delaying and causing the abatement of any action by the world community had a direct influence on the rise of groups like ISIL in the Syrian rebel ranks. They were not prominent early on, but Russia’s tactics to support the Assad regime against the rebellion, and block UN action that would have allowed help to flow, gave rise to the situation we are faced with today.
Russia warned that helping the rebels would lead to the rise of Islamic extremism in Syria and then made sure that the country’s wounds stayed open long enough to get infected. This was preferable to risking the loss of it’s last major ally in the region.
Actually it has at least 3 allies in the region ran by the more sane Shia governments. Syria got infected because the less sane Sunni governments in the region (Saudi Arabia and Qatar) started ploughing in support to the Syrian rebellion in the form of money, arms, TOW missiles and suicide bombers. The US/EU provided non-military support directly and arms indirectly. It was this support that kept the wounds open, similar to the Libyan intervention, which again has created nothing but a huge mess. Do you not see a pattern here?
Stable Iraq –> US/EU Intervention –> Gone to ****.
Stable Libya –> US/EU Intervention –> Gone to ****.
Stable Syria –> US/EU Support –> Gone to ****.
Stable Ukraine –> US/EU support –> Gone to ****.
Palestine –> US funding of Israel –> Gone to ****.
Aghanistan –> US/EU Intervention –> Gone to ****.
So where’s next? Iran? Wouldn’t be the first time. Shah II? Maybe a Pinochet II for Chile perhaps. Or a Montt II for Guatemala.
Strangely enough, protests in Bahrain have been huge but barely covered. We sent in advisers to assist their police.
Syrian rebels =/ ISIL. ISIL is at war with many of the other Syrian rebels. Syria is not like Ukraine. In Ukraine there are two sides: the Ukrainian government forces vs the pro-Russian rebels, who are assisted by Russia. In Syria, there are at least three sides: the Syrian government, ISIL, & the non-ISIL rebels (themselves divided). The Syrian state has sometimes attacked non-ISIL rebels while they were fighting ISIL, to help ISIL, as success by ISIL gave credibility to Assad’s argument that the rebels as a whole were religious fanatics. There is no analogue of this in Ukraine. Your argument is therefore invalid. One could argue with at least as much validity that giving aid to Assad makes one responsible for ISIL’s crimes.
Or the Syrian government have attacked all rebels and whether they happened to be fighting each other was irrelevant to them.
ISIL have somehow taken over Northern Iraq with relatively little news coverage and no western attempts to stop them despite their actions.
Bit in bold is complete trash. Islamic extremists have consistently acted to destabilise Shia regimes in Syria and Iraq completely in line with Saudi, US and Israeli interests. When the Saudis sold on TOW missiles to Syrian rebels, the US resold TOW missiles to Saudi Arabia virtually the next day.
We are living in a world of PRISM-instigated coups. Ukraine was just that from the very outset. The rebels of February were supported from day one without question and without the second side to the story. If the same thing had happened in Canada or Mexico, the US would already have tanks in there.
Lukos dont be dense. We are taking about Petropavlivka near Rozsypne and Grobove where the parts of MH17 are .
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Petropavlivka,+Donetsk+Oblast,+Ukraine/Snizhne,+Donetsk+Oblast,+Ukraine/@48.0757584,38.5315389,11z/data=!4m1
Clearly there is some uncertainty. Several places by the same name and someone wanting to drill for shale gas.
I would call the whole thing a sham. Either a civilian airliner was shot down by Obamists or it was sent out as a deliberate designated target.
I still want to go with the BAE Replica.
Well, here is my measurement, with the line drawn from central Snizhne to the field at Petropavlivka that seems to contain the most distant bit of wreckage.
Here’s mine. Obviously more than one. Mine was the only one GE turned up. I did find your one later.
Okay there is two just to be confusing.
Whatever you say. That’s the evidence presented. If you want to disbelieve it, that’s fine. Hopefully you still believe that we went to the moon and that 9/11 was the work of terrorists.
Stop being stupid. There are two places in Donetsk by that name.
I used the Google Earth measure tool to get the distance from central Shizhne to the furthest-distant point in the Petropavlivka debris field, and got a figure of 23 km, well with the range of an SA-11 operating “near” Shizhne. My electronic atlas produced a similar figure.
Really. I get 43km. And Petropavlivka (Donetsk) is after Snizhne (SE – 43km) on the flight path direction and south of the flight path. Ground zero is marked as 14km West of Snizhne.
There are huges problems with all your theories. Can you provide a time frame for these shots.
1) The first picture was allegedly taken by journalists 8 days before it came out. In a modern media world how likely is that?
2) It has a cover on, so after firing the missile, why wouldn’t they put it back on? Several earlier photos claimed a truck carrying 4 missiles with no cover was the Buk on it’s way to the scene.
3) Going back through Lugansk afterwards to get over the Russian border – an idiotic route to take, the main road SW of Lugansk to get to where they were seen, in the direction they were going, passes through Kiev-held land. There were far easier routes over the border south of Lugansk. I’ve pointed that out several times. It’s more likely this was the launcher that shot down the An-26.

4) The truck is a common truck type used by both sides for transporting Buks.
5) This guy resigns:
6) Other evidence shows Ukrainian Buk movements within range, see Paralay’s posts.
7) The phone intercepts – the only one we’d heard to date. Seemed scripted when I heard it. Some analysis shows it to have been edited.
8) Even if the rebels did shoot it down I’d still blame the Ukrainian Army for all the following non-compliances with International Air Warfare Law:
http://ihlresearch.org/amw/HPCR%20Manual.pdf
Section J, I, 63(f)
Section E, I, 22(d)
Section G, 41 – Did anyone inform the rebels, which aircraft were civilian?
Section H, 42 – Ukrainian military jet shouldn’t have been next to airliner.
Section H, 43-46 – Ukrainian military should have diverted air traffic.
Section I, IV, 54 – Airliner shouldn’t have been there.
Section I, IV, 55 – Was a NOTAM issued to rebel forces?
9) Ukrainian Army won’t let OSCE investigators do their job, they keep fighting in the vicinity.
10) Via Donetsk-Zuhres is one stupid way to get to Torez or Snizhne from Lugansk.
11) I’m going to make a wild hypothesis that’s there’s more than one Buk SAM and more than one lorry with a blue stripe. It makes no sense to have a crucial piece of air-defence on the back of a transporter for such a long time on such an inefficient route, or to take it via Donetsk going through 2 pieces of Kiev held territory on the way. It’s a 125-150 mile journey that way. At an average of 30mph, that’ll take 5 hours. You put together pieces but they don’t stack up.
You see, here’s another one with a cover 2 days after the incident with people claiming it’s the same one, different transporter.

Note that the initial decision for the F35B over the F35C was made back in the early 2000s – specifically at the request of the RAF, who wanted to retain the short-field/damaged-runway STOVL capabilities of the Harrier.
The late 2010 decision for F-35C was very late in the design/build cycle of HMS QE – which led to the high costs that caused the reversion to the F-35B in early 2012.
That was roughly when the conservatives got in. For a time I thought the F-35C would have been better myself but the advantages of the B are many. There’s short fields and damaged runways, but also a carrier sortie rate improvement (not cats and arresters) and an ability to operate in worse sea conditions.
What do you to if a catapult becomes non-operational?
http://navy-matters.beedall.com/cvf1-12.htm
The generally favourable experience of STOVL carrier operations over the previous 15 years had by the mid-1990’s brought the RN close to prescribing a STOVL solution for the then Sea Harrier Replacement (subsequently incarnated as the Future Carrier Borne Aircraft and now Joint Combat Aircraft). The service was an avowed proponent of STOVL on account of, amongst other things: better sortie-generation rates; reduced aircraft impact on overall platform size and cost; and the ability to operate in higher sea states.
And the advocates of STOVL apparently had some strong arguments, for example Major Andrew G. Shorter, USMC states in article published in the September 2003 edition of the USNI Proceedings:
Studies compared the effectiveness of conventional take-off and landing (CTOL) and V/STOL aircraft at sea. One study, conducted by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) in 1980, concluded that V/STOL aircraft provide better mission performance at sea with fewer aircraft. This stems from the V/STOL’s ability to generate a greater number of sorties for a given time period, primarily because it is unconstrained by the normal deck cycles of CTOL aircraft. The AIAA study points out that “the air platform from which V/STOL operates can be smaller than today’s large deck carrier. The support costs, including logistics, maintenance, manpower, et al. are reduced for both the aircraft and the ship.” This concept sets the stage for reducing the large overhead normally associated with sea-based tactical aviation to the point where it can be considered viable on many more seagoing platforms.
The STOVL JSF greatly reduces the training and currency requirement for fixed-wing operations afloat. This increases commensurately its ability to be adopted and employed jointly as the Air Force is no longer excluded from non-land-based operations. With the large power margins, enhanced stability control, and pilot augmentation systems the STOVL JSF will incorporate, safe and efficient landings at sea will become easy and straightforward. This should lead to streamlined training and extended currency limits—so much so that non-naval-trained pilots could become ship-qualified in just a few days. Consider the flexibility of being able to jointly sea base all of the services’ primary tactical air assets, not only in the context of the tenets mentioned earlier, but also in the form of indefinite sustainment for the force structure. The STOVL JSF squadrons from any service, with minimal effort, could provide forces for surged or sustained sea-based maritime operations—a force planner’s dream.
Fewer aircraft require less hangar space, fewer maintenance and support personnel, and for STOVLs, fewer ship systems to support them and a much smaller air department. STOVLs require 30% less deck space for operations, which leads to increased operating efficiencies. Those efficiencies allow generation of more sorties given equal mission performance. For example, STOVL aircraft can generate 30% more sorties than CTOL aircraft for targets out to 400 nautical miles, and 15% more for ranges to 700 nautical miles. The affordable combination of multiple missions within one hull design can become a reality based on our emerging technology.
Unfortunately I fear topics like this are too political and the discussion of politics is an inevitability. Every point that anyone could conceivably bring up is inextricably linked to politics. The sources being linked are linked to politics. I say we wait for an official version post investigation and review the evidence then. IMHO, it’s unlikely we’ll ever find out what happened. A smoking gun would have been presented already if it existed.