tibet

for me personally, one of the biggest shock is how extreme the reactions are.
On one side, you got people thinking that there’s an active genocide going on in Tibet and that China is doing everything against them.

on the other end.. while we know there are quite a few Chinese who have extreme nationalism.. some of it is ridiculous. I’ve seen some advocating a new “cultural” revolution there, mass migrating “Han Chinese” to the region, etc.. things which would probably worsen the situation and make the Tibetans even angrier.

I’ve followed Tibetan history for a bit, mostly because there’s some parallels between Tibet and the Ryukyus. One of the most common things I’ve heard is that Tibet was always a part of China. The problem is “what is China?” the Mongols were the ones who went into Tibet and incorporated it with China, but never really ruled it directly (mostly in indirect means), let alone populate it. It was for the most part independent. At the time of course, many people didn’t consider the Yuan Dynasty as being Chinese, and there were quite a number of revolts..but some argue its Chinese now, and others argue that it isnt. The Manchu led Qing Dynasty (several centuries later) were the ones that really made more effort to conquer and control Tibet (again another Dynasty that is non-Han, but probably more likely to be agreed upon as a Chinese Dynasty).. but they never really populated it either and the control over the region weakened by the 20th century until the PRC established actual control over it. (either way, there was a beginning to this “control” so it is faulty to say “always”)

PRC’s control over the region is mixed. getting rid of the serf system is probably good (although its argueable the extent of how severe the serf system was and that whether Chinese and Western Values should be rightfully used to judge what the Tibetans do and value). However despite what the Dalai Lama has done or not do, its clear that they still admire him.

The cultural revolution saw alot of damage being done in Tibet and lots of cultural loss, but it also affected everywhere else, minority regions and non minority regions. Probably the biggest problem today is the income gap.. Tibet may have seen rising income, living standards, etc.. but the ratio is much lower than the rest of China. Out of all the minorities, Tibetans still are either dead last or near the bottom when it comes to literacy, life expectancy, etc. Its just that now the percentages are better, but they are still ranked in the same area.

some if it is due to its location.. no one really wants to live in an isolated, hard to reach area with a harsh climate, which is the major reason why its poorer than many other areas. Lately, the PRC certainly is making a big effort to spread this wealth gap as they know too that even if these poorer areas are rising, as long as the gap between them and the rich coastal area becomes bigger, the people in the poorer areas will still be unhappy.

however spreading this wealth over there will take alot of time, and perhaps not enough time to calm down any resentment.

Ultimately, its really up to the people living in Tibet what they want, not us non Chinese who live hundreds or thousands of miles away, or nationalistic Chinese who for the most part, don’t live in Tibet either.

there’s tons of kingdoms in the world that have been conquered. the US annexed Hawaii, but today most people there would rather stay in the US. But more importantly Hawaii independence groups exist and are tolerated. Greenland prefers to stay with Denmark, etc. Here in Okinawa, the Ryukyus was an independent Kingdom that got annexed by Japan, then became part of the US and back to Japan again.. many people here don’t really like Japan, but very few really want full independence.. and at the same time, there’s several Okinawan independence parties that are tolerated as well. If PRC’s efforts in Tibet are more positive than negative, then the government should have the confidence to allow such naysayers to say what they want as the majority won’t take them seriously such as the numerous “independence” groups that exist in the “West”.

Well with the tiny 5.56mm ammoes…

…with good old 7.62×39, one shot, one kill:dev2: :dev2:

Not with the crappy eyes I got 😉

We we merely talking about the weapon choises of Tibetian resistance;)

Moderator Message

Ahem…. “Tibet”, anyone?

Let’s stay on topic please, chaps.

Thanks

GA

Well with the tiny 5.56mm ammoes…

…with good old 7.62×39, one shot, one kill:dev2: :dev2:

full automatic is overrated IMO. In my army time I never used it in situations that where supposed to be “real”…only when fooling around.
And besides, in the mountains, you aren’t exactly in the midst of some unlimited ammunition stockpile.;)

2nd that absolutely. Two controlled semi-auto shots on every target is the way to go.

Not really. Legally you can only buy the non-automatic version which pretty much makes it a small calibre hunting rifle in fancy dress.

full automatic is overrated IMO. In my army time I never used it in situations that where supposed to be “real”…only when fooling around.
And besides, in the mountains, you aren’t exactly in the midst of some unlimited ammunition stockpile.;)

…so if the pro-tibetians really want to do something usefull, buy M-16 (wich looses its irony as you can actually buy that one in america…

Not really. Legally you can only buy the non-automatic version which pretty much makes it a small calibre hunting rifle in fancy dress.

So hold on let me get this straight, your fuming and upset that pro Tibet demonstrators tried to put out the olympic flame yet your not upset about the oppresion of the tibetan people which is one millon times worse then trying to put out some pathetic propane fueled flame?

Who said Im not upset about Tibetian opression?
Abut as I said few weeks back (despite the fact that i got the idea that you had no clue of what so ever what i was talking about.) Thats tibetian and chinese issue to be taken care…
…olympics have nothing to do with it, so if the pro-tibetians really want to do something usefull, buy M-16 (wich looses its irony as you can actually buy that one in america:rolleyes: ) and go to the mountains where the reall difference is made…
Throwing torches to gutter is pure anti-chinese ranting, nothing to do with the tibetians….unless you can came up with analog of how china is helding olympic games to tease the poor tibetians…;)

A time to be bit angry and share it with you others;)

If I have any rant about olympics inside of me, these harrasing of the flame relay is really buggin me off:mad:
As a amatour athlete myself, olympics have always been important things to me, and such untastefull and unpolite manners that these pro-Tibet people have shown really puts the shame on them. No matter how valid their agenda migth (or not) be, Olympic flame is something that they should have not go to disturpt.
Of what ever sympathy I had for Tibetians suddenly has fallen away:mad::mad:

So hold on let me get this straight, your fuming and upset that pro Tibet demonstrators tried to put out the olympic flame yet your not upset about the oppresion of the tibetan people which is one millon times worse then trying to put out some pathetic propane fueled flame? :confused:

Politics aside, maybe pulling out of the Olympics will save us Brits from a humiliation. Nobody seems to be aware of the lessons learnt in the past, has our system of training athletes learnt anything.
There always used to be several bright sparks on the international stage, but can you think of any, they seem to be riddled with drug abuse, injuries and retirement. By this stage in the run up to the Olympics, we would always be looking forward to some heavy metal person producing the goods, but we seem to have sunk so low that as a former keen athletic type myself, I don’t see where this will be coming from.
Perhaps as the season progresses, I will be proved wrong, lets see what happens.

I find your last line a very sad comment on what must be your perception of the situation that the Tibetans find themselves in, and strangely at odds with your comments on caring for the plight of the people of Zimbabwe, also the victims of massive human rights abuses, on another thread.

Well mirrored against the myth that the Tibetians want to present of themselves along with their Dalai Lama, of some sort of dececants of heaven on earth, They should look more carefully about when they rant and not.

Its completely different pose when poor and struggeled grabs arms in their home yards and retreat to mountains to wage gurrelia war, than when rich and spoiled westeners comes to attacking innocent sportmen out of nothing better to do.

Let us not forget where the modern “olympic flame relay” as we know it came from……and I dont mean Greece.

Indeed, also we shouldn’t forget that one of major claims that Real Tibetians (not the wannabies who ditch the torch into gutter) have is to clear out Han-chinese race out of their promised land as they find Han inferior and are afraid of loosing their own ethnical integrity if Han people would be allowed to move there…;) 😉

Let us not forget where the modern “olympic flame relay” as we know it came from……and I dont mean Greece.

Indeed lets not. All the more of a pity then that this ideal is being so cynically used by the PRC to further its own agenda, but to be fair they are not the only country to have done so. “One world-one dream” yes, so long as its a Chinese dream and everyone in it stays in line!

Let us not forget where the modern “olympic flame relay” as we know it came from……and I dont mean Greece.

Good point, well made. 😎

Let us not forget where the modern “olympic flame relay” as we know it came from……and I dont mean Greece.

A time to be bit angry and share it with you others;)

If I have any rant about olympics inside of me, these harrasing of the flame relay is really buggin me off:mad:
As a amatour athlete myself, olympics have always been important things to me, and such untastefull and unpolite manners that these pro-Tibet people have shown really puts the shame on them. No matter how valid their agenda migth (or not) be, Olympic flame is something that they should have not go to disturpt.
Of what ever sympathy I had for Tibetians suddenly has fallen away:mad::mad:

Unfortunately the IOC dropped themselves firmly into the middle of this whole sorry situation by giving the games to the PR of China in the first place, but its too late to argue the toss on that now. I find your last line a very sad comment on what must be your perception of the situation that the Tibetans find themselves in, and strangely at odds with your comments on caring for the plight of the people of Zimbabwe, also the victims of massive human rights abuses, on another thread. I would have thought that the comments today from the Beijing installed “governor” of Tibet “Trespassers against the Olympic flame whilst it is in Lhasa being treated severely and without mercy” should be a stark lesson to us all.

A time to be bit angry and share it with you others;)

If I have any rant about olympics inside of me, these harrasing of the flame relay is really buggin me off:mad:
As a amatour athlete myself, olympics have always been important things to me, and such untastefull and unpolite manners that these pro-Tibet people have shown really puts the shame on them. No matter how valid their agenda migth (or not) be, Olympic flame is something that they should have not go to disturpt.
Of what ever sympathy I had for Tibetians suddenly has fallen away:mad::mad:

Very pleasing to see how narked the Chinese Govt has become suddenly following the pro Tibet protests over the last couple of days. As I said in earlier posts, to the Govt in Beijing image is everything especially in front of their own people.

There’s a good point. If Britain’s citizens want to condemn China for occupying Tibet, shouldn’t they also call for a withdrawl from Northern Ireland? And what about the movement for Scottish independence? If Tibet wishes to break away and become an independent state, surely Scotland should be allowed the same privilege?

Hold your horses!

The majority of people in Northern Ireland wish to remain part of the United Kingdom .

Likewise, the majority of Scots (no doubt mindful of the fact that, since their King James VI succeeded Queen Elizabeth I as James I of England, it could be argued that it was they that annexed the rest of the UK rather than vice-versa) also wish to remain part of the United Kingdom.

Not the same kind of situation as in Tibet at all. 😎

There’s a good point. If Britain’s citizens want to condemn China for occupying Tibet, shouldn’t they also call for a withdrawl from Northern Ireland? And what about the movement for Scottish independence? If Tibet wishes to break away and become an independent state, surely Scotland should be allowed the same privilege?