quadbikeI am willing to bet that the IAC will enter IN service before the Vicky.
quadbikeOther pipe dreams to be honest. I wish they can get the land based version of both into service.
quadbikeTejas N is a waste anyway.
quadbikeAs long as things are run by government this will continue to happen in India.
quadbikeI remember that when I expressed scepticism about the predicted in-service date of IAC, citing the long delays to every stage of construction to date, I was jumped on by several posters here, who insisted that all the problems which had caused those delays had been resolved & there wouldn’t be any more.
They didn’t like my suggestion that previous problems had been symptoms of the fundamental problem of poor programme management, but I was right. It has obviously still not been solved.
It is just not that swerve, its a nation cutting its teeth in building Aircraft Carriers. Even with significant outside help it is not that easy (like the Scorpene Subs).
But yes poor programme management is the hallmark of not just this but almost all Indian R&D efforts.
As for the PoW who knows,
quadbikeThe IAC delayed by at-least 2 more years. Vicky is going to be crucial.
quadbikeSukhoi-30 jets have a design flaw, says Air Chief Browne
Pune: Air Chief NAK Browne today said the Indian Air Force (IAF) has identified a ‘design flaw’ with the Russian-made supersonic fighter aircraft Sukhoi-30 though nothing is wrong with its ‘airworthiness’.
“We have identified a Fly-By-Wire problem with the aircraft. It is a design issue and we have taken it up with the designing agency,” he told reporters on the sidelines of a function held to mark Golden Jubilee celebrations of Armed Forces Medical College (AFMC) in Pune.
Referring to the December 13, 2011 crash of a Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter aircraft near here, the Air Chief said that more checks were being implemented to ensure that such incidents do not happen again.
The aircraft had crashed at Wade Bholai village soon after it took off from Lohegaon air base. Two pilots of the fighter plane managed to bail out safely.
“There is nothing wrong with the aircraft or its airworthiness. I have myself flown the aircraft,” he said.
On proposed acquisition of the French Rafale aircraft, Air Chief Browne said the negotiations in this regard were progressing well and could be finalised by the end of the financial year.
In reply to a question, he said the IAF had an “elaborate plan” at hand to change over from old to new fleets.
quadbikeSukhoi-30 jets have a design flaw, says Indian Air Chief Browne
Air Chief NAK Browne today said the Indian Air Force (IAF) has identified a ‘design flaw’ with the Russian-made supersonic fighter aircraft Sukhoi-30 though nothing is wrong with its ‘airworthiness’.
“We have identified a Fly-By-Wire problem with the aircraft. It is a design issue and we have taken it up with the designing agency,” he told reporters on the sidelines of a function held to mark Golden Jubilee celebrations of Armed Forces Medical College (AFMC) in Pune.
quadbikeHow about this basically shows their attitude towards Private Sector.
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2010/02/minister-of-state-for-defence-mm-pallam.html
And my argument that if DPSUs should be privatised still stands, because no experience or excellence is being lost in that case.
quadbikeI am surprised that you don’t see the contradiction in the above statements. You say that DRDO was very ambitious when it took on the LCA. But the AMCA is an even more ambitious project and you seem to think it is OK to attempt that. I can see you bitching about the AMCA a few years down the road and complaining that they were too ambitious and we should just abandon it and buy the F-35.
If they do continue with the Tejas MK2 along with the AMCA/UCAV etc. chances are that each of these programmes will be delayed and some of them may even lack sufficient funding.
Actually AMCA is also rather ambitious and according to former ACM Naik, the IAF wanted a good fourth generation fighter with a high level of Indian content. I do believe going for stealth is going to be the undoing of that project as well unless of course private funding/privatisation/JV can be sought.
Tejas is a great plane, its like a top end limited edition luxury/sports car, every piece make is unique :D. 2 squadrons with each plane having its own personality & behavior at high AoA.
quadbikeQuadbike, u make some interesting (and sad) points and dont seem to let your nationality (or anything else) blind your assessment of the programme. If it was up to you to decide what to do with the Tejas project, what would you do? Stop it right now and cut the losses? Or go ahead and hope things will be sorted out until the Mk.2 version enters production?
If you chosed to bin the programme right now, how would you adress IAFs need to fill the sqadroons after the Bisons finally have been retired? What foreign design could fit this role at a realistic cost? Or, do you simply not see the need for a light weight, mass produced fighter in the modern day IAF? Could it be about time India let go of the light+medium+heavy fighter consept all together and instead focused its resources on building up a solely medium+heavy fleet?
To me as a bystander it looks like IAF will gradualy grow into becoming the worlds second strongest AF within the next two decades (I am totally convinced the MKI/FGFA/Rafalle combo will be able to dominate the skies of SE Asia) , and there will be little need for or a meaningful role for a light fighter to play in souch an AF..
However I also belive Tejas have been an excellent experience for HAL etc and tons of valuable experiences and know how has been learned. Quite an achivement for a nation that has little previous experience of developing and building fast jets.
1. Tejas has not been a complete failure if anything it has given Indian designers valuable experience and many of its subsystems have found its way into other IAF aircraft/upgrade projects.
2. But if you look at the programme objectively and look at what it set out to achieve, at what cost and time frame you can only term it as a failure. Partly because of the low budget, partly because of mismanagement and snail pace associated with Public Sector Undertakings in India and mostly because the project was over ambitious to start with, with little experience at designing a fighter Indian engineers tried to leapfrog several generations with the Tejas this is the root cause for most of its current problems, as you need to learn how to walk before you can run.
3. I will infact abandon the programme as it is right now and concentrate on the AMCA, will use the GE engines ordered as its initial power plants and preserve my R&D budget for that programme, because AMCA to be what the IAF envisages it to be will need a hell of a lot more investment than what will be earmarked for it.
4. For the immediate requirement I will either buy F16s or Gripens off the shelf, like I said with American Engines and Israeli radars the LCA is as sanction prone as any of these jets and not as capable. Its much touted purpose as a technology development project has already been done.
5. Everyone learns through failures. Its like writing an exam with a time limit, you spend too much time trying to figure out a tough question, you are bound to miss out the next few. So time to dump Tejas and concentrate on AMCA/AURA
To Twinblade :- The MoD treats the Private Defense players very badly and won’t award them any contracts of any worth. Defense industry requires investment and I can see why players are reluctant to invest a lot of money into building manufacturing infrastructure only for the MoD to give the orders to DPSUs, Pipav shipyard is a fine example after extensive modernization it is yet to get its fair share.
And When You privatize PSUs you are not losing already existing experience or ability you are just passing it along to better management. People like you and commies like Antony and Pallam Raju are the reason why our Defense procurement is the way it is.
quadbikeTejas has been great in a way that it helped develop various subsystems. But as a product its certainly below-par/average.
I have said it many times and I say it again, during the design and development phase the Tejas team was over ambitious and they bit an awful lot more than they could chew.
American Engines, Quad FBW, use of composites etc. Had they gone for a a simpler design like the JF-17 it would have been in service with FoC cleared ages ago. Too complex for what is basically the lowest tier aircraft in IAF when (if ever) it enters service.
Second gen manufacturing techniques on a fourth gen airframe, we must learn a lot from the Chinese. They are rather good at knowing their limits and making the best product possible within their limits.
RIP Tejas I won’t shed a tear for you. You were not going to be an autonomous fighter anyway with American Engines and Israeli Radar and Weapons, you were prone to sanctions like any other foreign off the shelf fighter, may be your ultimate failure will make them sell the DPSUs to private players.
quadbikeINS Sahyadri Commissioned
Apparently a rare Frigate which carries air to air weaponry.
The 4,900-tonne INS Sahyadri is equipped with some of the most advance surface and air-to-air missiles and can carry two helicopters – a mix of Dhruv, Sea King or Kamov – onboard for various missions.
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/stealth-warship-ins-sahyadri-commissioned-245979
quadbikeIdiots at BBC saying it has an extra engine for STOVL.
It is the heaviest and most expensive of the three versions of the plane, carrying an extra engine for its “jump jet” capability, which it needs to land on the Royal Navy’s new carriers.
quadbikeWhat a pathetically ran programme. The people in charge must be held responsible for the delay and fired. Yes people may argue it has given us a lot of technologies and all, but with this much time on most other countries the results yielded would have been considerably more.
Obsolete by the time it enters service and the AMCA is going to be another comedy show.
Sell it to the Mahindra’s or Tata’s and see them turn it around easy.
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