The thing is this. You can buy twin engined. You CAN also maintain it. But, it comes down at how you distribute funding inside your armed forces. For example, if you buy something that requires 2 or 3 times the maintenance cost of a Gripen, you can divert the money there, but it will be money that you will cut from elsewhere (navy? army?).
Exactly the point I was trying to make. Then again its getting tedious I am not going to talk about the advantages of an aircraft which is cheaper to buy and operate again. There is not many months till the decision, lets all place our bets 😀
I think Dassault sense they have a chance now, Rafale coming to Aero India and all.
I don’t fly any of them, do you? What a silly response.
The Russian air force is still the second largest in the world, even in is greatly depleted state. Your statement regarding two engine types being used, was clearly wrong.
Not good enough for you? Check the Royal Air Force. Another currently 100% two engine combat air force. Luftwaffe too. Wonder what that says about their engines while we are at it.
How about talking about flying hours ? How does the RuAF compare with the USAF or other western airforces ? A twin engined fighter costs more to fly and therefore less flying hours per pilot.
Royal Airforce will have its complement of F 35s soon, but they are still not what you call big airforces.
How about you looking at U.S.A, China, RoKaf, JSDF, the other IAF…Turkey, Greece…
OH YEAH BABY BRING IT ON
TWO RAFALEs coming to Aero India 2011
Now i would love to see the Rafale fans reaction.
Will handling like a clean F 16 be enough ? All the Eurocanards excel the F 16.
Russian air force is 100% two engined ;).
Yes and how many of those twin engined fighters do you fly, how many MIGs do you have rusting away.
Awesome Pictures. 🙂
This is devolving into a circular argument. The PAK FA may very well have such a system, but until it is confirmed, then the bigger assumption is an unclaimed capability. The Russians have talked about multiple apertures for radar, including L band, IRST, AI, etc…
I doubt that a DAS-like system would be a state secret.
Then PAK FA is not stealthy either as it is not ‘confirmed’ :rolleyes:.
Of course, because they have to know which weapons will be integrated, or offered from the vendor / vendor country and that’s the difference here. EF seems to offer Storm Shadow and Taurus, although they are not integrated yet, but Saab seems not to offer Taurus at all!
That makes a huge difference in A2G capabilities, because now Gripen E/F comes even more closer to LCA. Both heaviest A2G weapons will now be 1000Kg LGB, with the only difference that LCA can carry 1, the Gripen E/F 2.
:rolleyes: I am sorry but you are now bordering on the ridiculous.
1. Seems to offer ? Show me one link where some one from Dassault or Eurofighter camp offers the SCALP/Storm Shadow.
2. MBDA has offered all these systems. Including Taurus and SCALP/Storm Shadow, there was an article on a Force issue last year with their head saying the same.
3. Those MBDA articles were basically paid for advertisemetns showing what was on offer to the IAF if they needed, it also included Meteor (available on request for multiple platforms IAF operates), MICA and ASRAAM.
See, that’s what I said and if this policy doesn’t change, the Gripen disqualifies itself!
So does a host of others, does it mean India is not buying from others. India is ordering P 8I, C 130J and LCA engines from the U.S.A. Sweden cannot be any worse. Like I said if you want real autonomy better make your own.
Btw, you always argue that IAF can’t afford more twin engine fighters, but that’s your personal opinion only and IAF obviously thinks different!
If they can’t afford it, they would have added Mirage 2000-5, or Gripen C/D in the initial competition and would not add 3 heavier twin engine fighters in the MMRCA competition now.
If they can’t afford it, they would add medium class twin engine, or single engine MMRCAs, instead of producing more MKIs that will be inducted at the same time.
If they can’t afford it, they would develop a single engine AMCA, with one higher thrust Kaveri Snecma, or the AL 41 engine, that we will get through FGFA developmen anyway.So the lack of money to operate twin engine fighters is not a real argument!
1. Sure indeed it is my personal opinion, but it is based on common sense that the IAF will be operating too many twin engined fighters if it goes for one of the big birds in the MRCA competiton.
2. Initially they only wanted Mirage 2000-5, then Gripen C/D and F 16 was added, the F/A 18 was added during Bush’s visit, Dassault offered Rafale instead of Mirage and so on.
3. One of the main reasons to go for two engines in the AMCA is because India doesn’t have and are long way from making a single engine with enough thrust to power an aircraft of its size. So two Kaveris will do the job. The fact that even the AMCA is twin engined makes a stronger case for the IAF to go for a lighter MRCA.
4. It is a real argument because no large airforce operates with a structure where only 10% of its strength (propose LCA MK2 and MK1) is single engined.
I think we should not make it Hornet or India specific. Isn’t it the case with F35? Not only the engines but several black boxes are only for US to open. I think India has still a decent deal. Maybe if the numbers raise that much they can go to more inhouse maintenance for the MKI.
This is a major reason to buy from a non U.S supplier. No black boxes no restrictions on use etc. The french for example have even said we can use their aircraft to deliver nukes.
Some say it is the colour that is hiding the bays. I disagree we have had Su 47 in black showing weapon bays. If its there we should be able to see it.
Sorry plawolf but even when some people drew lines and ‘pointed out’ weapons bays, the images were inconclusive and most of us were skeptical. It is quite plausible that the first prototype don’t have them at this stage.
Neither do you know that it doesn’t have distributed sensors, all of us are speculating his is as good as yours.
So is this China’s T-50/YF-22 or is it its Su-47 ?
There have been many pictures posted and highlighted showing where the side weapons bays are.
People who don’t think the J20 has weapons bays are clearly letting wishful thinking get the better of them.
Seeing is believing…