quadbikeTo add to what EGPH said they have the balls to condemn the UK for expressing its disappointment. It has the audacity to tell organizers in neutral countries not to praise Chinese dissidents etc.
The world has bent backwards to please the Chinese, but this will change one day. Every U.S President is not going to be an Obama and in time Europe will grow some collective balls :).
quadbikeIt is already flying with an American engine and has an option for another American engine as well. Even the EJ200 won’t be much of a problem.
quadbike1)That was my point, nothing is “certain” when it comes to this project.
Almost every major jet fighter porject has had engine problems.JSF, Eurofighter, JF-17.
2) JSF numbers in UK are being cut, and that was the orginal point I was making.
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1. Nothing is certain about any project. Of all the issues you could have picked as a reason for potential LCA MK2 delays you picked a weak one. The engine issue will most probably be a non issue once the final choice is made.
2. There is nothing official about it thats all.
quadbikeThey already made CGI’s eh, looks like the Swedes are serious about this one.
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2) As mentioned, we simply cannot be sure. For instance if Eurojet is chosen and fitted it may prove to be totally unsuited to Indian conditions. It was designed for European warfare. This is just an example.
In that case we cannot be sure about anything can we. No guarantees you will wake up tomorrow. At a certain level most things in this world deals with chance and probability, and for the LCA MK2 the engine of choice being integrated without costly delays is extremely probable.
3) One carrier is being changed into a Helicopter Carrier as per the article, so will not require JSFs.
Guardian says one is being offered to India. I will wait till there is an official confirmation on its status.
quadbike1) I dont understand this. You are saying its not fair to have debates in “sensitive” Indian issues?
2) Engine problems were a major issue with Kavari right?
3) Despite what the exact problems were, the fact remains Arjun was backed by the government and Army yet was not fully adopted into service. The point I am making is that this could well happen with LCA.
4) “The decision to have only one new aircraft carrier will cut the number of JSFs to be flown by RAF squadrons from 138 to about 50, saving £7.6 billion. At current prices, the aircraft will cost close to £90m each, but this could rise to more than £100m”
1. I am saying people should be allowed to discuss sensitive issues here in the IAF thread as well rather than being paranoid and calling each other trolls etc.
2. You are not getting me, Integration of an engine GE F404 and F404 IN into the LCA went smoothly. I think the LCA MK2 engine choice will go smooth as well.
3. It is not yet decided that the UK is only going to have one carrier.
quadbikeOK, first of all to both of you. Thanks for keeping this civil and respectful, its a debate others on this site can learn from.
I direct fit it maybe, but as we both know, installing a new engine will require much more work then just fitting it into the airframe and may throw up all sorts of other problems.
The chance is still there. The Indian Army desperatly needs more modern tanks and went for more T-90s rather then homegrown Arjuns. This may yet be teh case with the LCA is the IAF end up not being happy with it.
UK has already cut numbers as have US forces. You are wrong on this count.
1. I find it hypocritical that some members here can post in the PAF thread on a variety of issues while not allowing any discussion in the IAF thread on sensitive issues.
2. The ADA/HAL is perfectly capable with assistance from GE/Eurojet of sorting out any potential issues. Engine integration has never been a problem with the first LCA itself.
3. The Arjun situation is basically down to logistics as it has been said here many times. The IA has its logistical/transport systems based on smaller/lighter Russian types while the Arjun is a heavy tank.
4. I searched and could not find anything, If you can please give source.
quadbike1) So both GE and Eurojet have already integrated the engines as tested them on the LCA!?
Direct Fit means it will fit into the airframe with little or minor modifications to the engine/airframe.
2) Exactly. We are in complete agreement here. Until an order is placed its just a verbal pledge. Which can be changed.
The chance of this changing is very less, because IAF really needs a cheap fighter in numbers to replace the MiG 21s. The LCA has full support of the GOI as well.
3) Then you really need to read up on the F-35 I ma afraid. I dont have time to educate you, but Google will help. UK, Denmark and others are having doubts and are looking at cutting back numbers. Due to both technical and financial issues. I am sure teh programme will succeed with US backing though.
Has anyone of them said they are cutting numbers ? NO. They would probably cut on other things and not that. If there are any rethinks it has to do with financial situation in the respective countries rather than technical issues.
quadbikeI am not taking a dig at the Rafale. I am just showing you that the F 22 is the benchmark you compare against, and that 1 defeat in six encounters against it is a great achievement for a modern fighter like Rafale, which defeated the Typhoon several times.
It just proves the superiority of F 22 in the A2A regime.
quadbikeI get the engine thing. A engine has still not been chosen or integrated in MK2. That is a fact right? Exactly. I thought so.
So the Defence Minister and IAF have pledged support for a 100+ plane order? Can you give me the link to the order placed. I cannot find this.
Exactly, many still question if the F-35 will be teh major success it is hoped to be. The difference is they have integrity to admit this….
1. Both the Engines shortlisted are a direct fit to the LCA. There will be a redesign of the inlets apart from that structural changes will be minimum.
2. Pledged support is not ordered. Many countries have pledged support to the F 35, they have not yet ‘ordered’ it.
3. What ? I have not seen anyone involved with the F 35 saying they have any questions about the project. The real worry about it is cost over-runs increased unit price etc.
quadbikeOK One last time.
Mk1 or MK2. The thing needs an engine. Even when one is selected you will find it will take time to integrate and may throw up a host of probelms.
What if there are massive problems with the new engine?
MK1 already has an engine its the GE F404 IN. MK2 will get either the EJ200 or GE F414.
Would the IAF “pledge its support and order 100+”!?
It has already so has the Defense Minister.
http://www.thehindu.com/2008/12/05/stories/2008120556261400.htm
How on earth could you possibly know that? You are pledging success on a programme that is nowhere near completion.
Like we are pledging support to the PAK FA. Like many around the world are counting on the F 35.
quadbikeOK, I think its time to clear up a few myths that seem to be emerging.
According to press reports
1) Only 8 LCAs can be manufactured a year! Thats 1/3 of a Squadron a year. Nowhere near the levels the IAF need.
2) Despite many, many hours of testing, this plane only went superasonic this month
3) Still no engine selected.
So assuming this plane can fly beyond Mach 1.1, can be produced at more then 8 a year, can find an engine and can get orders over 40 from its own domestic market, then, just maybe we can go around claimimg what a success this will be.
Sources for all the facts qouted are in links below.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Grounded-Sukhois-to-fly-again/articleshow/5312403.cms
http://www.domain-b.com/aero/mil_avi/mil_aircraft/20091212_hal.html
1. The 8/year is possibly for the LCA MK1 not the MK2, when given a larger order HAL will churn it out faster.
2. Its supersonic at sea level, the plane has went supersonic before.
3. The MK1 of which the first two squadrons will be equipped has an engine in the GE F404IN. The Engine that has to be selected is for the LCA MK2.
The rest of your statement is bull crap, There are 2 LCAs the MK1 and MK2.
For the MK1 40 are ordered and it has an Engine and a Radar and is very near its IOC.
The MK2 do not have an engine, the IAF has pledged it support and would order 100+ of these.
quadbikeIf your way of thinking was correct, why would the US build the F-22 in the first place? back in the ’90s when the F-22 was being developed, the F-15/F-16 combo was the state-of-the-art for any airforce…
Because the Russians were catching up with the Su 27/MiG 29.
America always wants to stay a generation ahead of the rest when it comes to Aerial Superiority. Their R&D budget also represents this. For China or Russia 1:1 exchange rates may be acceptable, but America wants to bring as many of her men/women home from combat as they can.
Hence the F 22.
When the F 15 was first out nothing in the Russian AF inventory could get the better of it till the Su 27.
quadbikethe J-7PG is a nice looking small fighter, but seems out of place in such modern company. won’t stand a chance in any form of combat against any of those fighters and can’t offer any real threat while training either. BTW, why aren’t there any Rafales or Typhoons ?
:rolleyes:
In WVR you never know as its very agile. Also do not forget how well the Bisons did against the F 15s/16s a few years ago.
quadbikeNow this is wrong.
The Pak-Fa will cost more vs the Su-35S of course, but i’m sure they will not exceed any EU or US aviation manufactor cost.. not in a 100 years.
The salleries in Russia are so much lower than in the west.
They have all the natural recources they need to manufactor high-tec stealth aircraft, and very soon they have the knowledge too.
In time Russia want to export this Pak-Fa, but for now they(KNAAPO) will export the Su-35 variant.Like you ever will, if it did happen..:rolleyes:
why don’t you show us some Hud display video of your claims?
Again show us some sources, any sources.Thanks
1. The Su 35s Price atm is comparable to that of the F 18 SH and less than that of Rafale and Typhoon. While I do not expect the PAK FA to be as expensive as the F 35, it may well match the Typhoon in-terms of price.
2. Well the Rafale fans were quick to give a HUD shot of the Typhoon in its crosshairs, I am sure if that happened in BVR they would be alteast bragging about it and we woulda seen a HUD shot if it happend in WVR.
3. Just go to the Merry xmas for Rafale fans thread and see the report there, they were bragging that the F 22 only beat the Rafale once. :p
4. What will you ask for when the F 35 claims a kill in exercise in future, It has no HUD.
quadbikeSorry GA the title of the other thread was only changed now.
It is appalling and sad, i could not help but react.
Even Arab countries show leniancy towards foriegn nationals caught in crimes but not China.
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