quadbikeI have just restored the Franco-German project thread.
Please restore the Tejas and IAF threads. And please do not close/freeze threads based on reports by people with vested nationalist interests.
quadbikeHey Blackarcher, do you have evudence of a deceased PAF pilot?
If not why are you stating this on an open forum? Its the reason they deleted IAF thread.
Post reported, any reason this guy is not banned yet?
Hey Superhero. They did not delete the IAF thread. It will be back.
Meanwhile you have been trolling over there and in here as well. Sadly these days the Key.aero does not seem to have enough moderators to manage the forum. 5 years ago this would not have happened.
quadbikeHere’s a theory to blow everyone’s minds. The F-16 was taboo in as much as it would be taboo to admit an Su-30MKI was shot down. Both sides would be wise to offer little evidence anything but a MiG-21Bis(on) fighter and Mi-17 helicopter was shot down by a JF-17. Neither side would have to have egg on their face. The U.S. would be upset the F-16 was used. The Russians would be unpleasant if a Flanker of any type was admitted to be lost. Everyone goes home a winner. The second thing the IAF doesn’t have to mention is how awful the Su-30MKI drops bombs without the situational awareness and western navigation aids.
Setting aside the F – 16 and Su 30 shoot down claims for a bit let me address a few issues with your other assumptions.
1. Unlike the PAF F 16s. Neither the Indian Su 30 MKI nor Mirages come with any strings from their country or origin. Apart from possibly stipulations on using the MKIs radars to its full potential when exercising / DACT with Western Air forces.
2. It means we can use the MKI in anger and the Russians would not mind. The Mirages in Indian service are tasked with Nuclear strike while US only ‘allows’ Pakistan to use its F 16s in defensive roles and against militants.
3. The MKI does have Western, Israeli and Indian subsystems and I do not think the current Russian ones are in anyway inferior to ones made in the west. The Westerners are better with marketing.
4. The Mirages and Jaguars are more compatible with Israeli and western smart munitions and stand off weapons than the MKIs. The MKI is more an air dominence asset at there is no point in using it for strike in a limited conflict. Moreover as someone had earlier pointed out the Mirage squadrons have been practicing this role for nearly 3 decades.
5. If an MKI went down in the Indian side, you would know it by now because the media and people are not forced to tow the official line (some voluntarily do because no one wants to bee seen as a traitor). But there is not a question of the GoI totally controlling the narrative.
6. Not going to repeat the views on F 16 because neither side are going to climb back from their set stances. Waiting for new evidence as of now.
quadbikehttps://www.aspistrategist.org.au/we…qHvjZW3CPgM14Q
This guy claims the Indian raid hit about 200 meters off the likely targets.
Surely this won’t be enough for internal Indian public opinion, can we expect further retaliation?
Based on Google Earth and other such sources right. I think in a few days Indian side will release videos/pictures.
quadbikeModerator Bias.Literally what happened to the Tejas thread as well.The thread could have been locked but like with the Tejas thread it was moved to a non accessible section thereby robbing users and visitors of valuable information about Indian Air Force, Tejas programme and its upcoming programmes.
I may get infractions or may get banned. But there is a certain and clear bias from the Webmaster/Moderators on this forum against Indian Air Force and related threads. Even when most of the trouble there is caused by Pakistani sympathizers.
If there is a strict rule on code of conduct, it must be enforced across the board. We have seen worse behaviour in the news thread for example, and yet nothing.
There you go calling a spade a spade :dev2:
quadbikeMy urdu/hindi is not that great, but this eyewitness on the Pakistan side states that there were 3 chutes, but at least 1 or 2 of these landed on the other side of the LoC? But then again he also claims the Indian pilot was a “Sikh”?
I observe that there are…………………then no subtitles for a while ?
That means another fighter went down not just Indian MiG 21 Bison.
He probably thought W.C A.Varthaman was a Sikh because of his handlebar mustache.
quadbikeNeither India is particulary important for Lockheed Martin, neither Lockheed Martin builds the AIM-120C5…
Scorps is entirely correct, thats the kind of information that must be requested to the US Government.
The USG would possibly want to have a look at the debris from the AIM-120C5 and while there may not be a public confirmation that it belonged to Pakistan there could be one in private between the two nations. US’ been tilting towards India for the past two decades and once some sort of Afghan deal is in place and US Forces withdraw from the region, I expect U.S to give up their delicate balancing act and align more with India.
quadbikeIAF has showed remains of AIM-120 C5 to media so it seems PAF F-16s were also involved and fired on target(s) across the LOC.
And one of them was shot down. This is why DGISPR was blatantly denying that F 16s were involved.
quadbike24 Pak Jets Tried To Cross Over, Intercepted By 8 Air Force Fighters
The Wing Commander was in hot pursuit of a Pakistani F-16 jet, which he engaged with an R-73 air-to-air missile. The state-of-the-art Pakistani fighter, thought to be a two-seater variant of the jet, was shot down. Both pilots were seen parachuting down on the Pakistani side of the Line of Control.
NDTV has learnt that the Pakistani Air Force strike package included eight F-16s, four Mirage-3 aircraft, four Chinese made JF-17 “Thunder” fighter.
Other aircraft in the formation were escort fighters to protect the Pakistan strike formation from any IAF retaliation. The large Pakistani attack formation was detected at 9.45 am, when they came within 10 km of the Line of Control.
A small number of these fighters then proceeded to cross the Line of Control, when they were intercepted by eight IAF jets, which included four Sukhoi 30s, two upgraded Mirage 2000s and two MiG 21 Bisons.
The Air Force fighters gave chase to the Pakistani jets on their return leg after they had dropped a handful of laser-guided bombs that narrowly missed their military targets along the Line of Control.
Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman was in hot pursuit of a Pakistani F-16, which his radar had locked onto.
Despite being warned by other aircraft in the formation about the presence of Pakistani fighters, he pushed home his attack and fired an R-73 air-to-air missile.
At this stage of the air-to-air encounter, the pilot’s wingman was also exposed and vulnerable.
Two missiles were fired by Pakistani F-16s. One of them, an AMRAAM (Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile) struck his aircraft, while another missed his wingman.
quadbikeKhan has completely out played Modi. Shows he cannot strike Pak without retaliation and also now hard for Modi to escalate after Pak humanitarian gesture. Internationally Pak has won the PR battle here.
If there is another terror strike from an outfit which is trained in Pakistan. There will be strikes against their camps in Pakistani territory. The loses for Indian side is a jet that was going to be retired in the next two years and the loss for Pakistan is something more valuable. Pakistan is de-escalating because it cannot handle a full on confrontation with India. I hope the message if firm this time and there won’t be terror attacks from Pakistan based outfits in India. Once we have peace we can have Chai and discuss about our shared culture and heritage.
quadbikeWhat amuses me is if we imagine if the roles were reversed…it was a PAF plane which went down on their side and pilot captured…would the Indians behave any different to what the Pakistanis have done? Probably not.
In 1971 when India Liberated East Pakistan, the Pakistani PoWs were kept safe from angry locals by the Indian Army.
quadbikeHow did they know it was an F16 ? In the dark?
Radar? Visual? In both cases there would be evidence. Radar or gun footage camera.Also was this mig 21 flying solo? Without a wingman? His wingmans radar and camera doesn’t work too? And lastly who confirmed that the f16 was shot down and crashed? in dark? Through what means?
Mig21 wreckage was burning till the next morning, I’m sure f16 wouldn’t be too. Still no video or pictures from ground or air.
Too many questions and this looks like too good to be true. But exactly what India needs to save face.
Indian Air Force and MEA did not claim it was an F 16. That is just media speculation. They said a PAF Jet.
In a country that is basically ran by the military, they have no issues in cordoning off areas relatively easily and keeping public away. The same thing happened after Indian strikes, the area was cordoned off so that they could push their own narrative.
India conducted a deep penetration strike inside Pakistan and not even the occupied part of Kashmir. Now Pakistan claimed there were no causalities, but their actions the next day ( a shallow incursion and retreat) shows that the Indian narrative was true. Do you think 6 1000 pound Spice glide bombs would only result in the damage they have shown you ?
India has scored a major diplomatic and military victory and drastically reduced the conflict threshold in the region. This is the new norm from now on, if India is attacked by Pakistani proxies, it will use conventional military means to strike at Pakistan.
quadbikeI think India is desperate to hold on to this narrative, without anything to back it up. Just because the alternative is Pakiatan came in, attacked, shot down an aircraft and went back.
Tell me how India would be able to show proof if their plane went down on their side of the border ? The MiGs were shooting at them with guns and missiles not Go Pro cameras.
quadbikeBoth planes fell on PoK and that is why Pakistan can show you the Indian Pilot and selectively show the wreckage of the MiG 21 Bison. Do you think Pakistan would allow India to photograph their shot down fighter, if India asks politely ? The above pictures are media speculation because they want to show some Pakistani wreckage. That is unlikely because that is in Pakistani Occupied Kashmir on the other side of the LoC.
But only one Indian fighter and and pilot is missing, the plane is shot down and the pilot is in the custody of the Pakistan Army. The Pakistani claim of a second fighter and pilot refers to their own fighter which was shot down by Indian MiG 21. They mistook him for an IAF pilot initially but has since said they only have one pilot.
Finally we will have to wait for a current PAF big-wig to retire and then write a book about how the PAF fighter was shot down and how it was all hushed up. Just like the earlier book written by some PAF commander on Kargil which went against their official line.
Only a decisive war can give facts which are not disputed.
quadbikeThe current Indian government is serious about indigenous defense procurement. It makes sense to order more Rafale and upgrading Su 30 MKIs. While in future there could be licensed production of the FGFA or a Su 57MKI. Ideally India should be able advanced testing the AMCA by then as well. It males little sense to order/license produce early block F35s or Su 57s.
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