quadbikeI’ve been having talks with Ibanez’s boffins & officials discussing if they could custom build me a one-off custom (to me) 9-string guitar…Still doesn’t mean I’m going to get it.
:rolleyes: so cynical F 35 is on offer to Indian Navy how many magazines do you want me to quote ? directly from LM ?
Its INs decision IMO it would either be F 35 or Rafale.
quadbikeWell you seem to be narrow-minded about it. Even if India did chose the F-35 it will not suite their industrial & strategic benefits. Yeah you just said if they did it would not destroy their aviation industry, maybe true but on the other hand it ain’t going to help it ‘at all’ what so ever. As I said, the MMRCA is much more than just purchasing aircraft, and if I wanted a MMRCA I certainly wouldn’t go for the F-35 with an unknown price. It’s bonkers to even suggest that.
And don’t bet on the IN getting any F-35s in the future. I’d be very surprised if that ever is even thought of.
I agree with you on the first point of ToT in that sense the MRCA makes far more sense than the operational perspective.
Well they (IN) have thought about it sent the RFI and have seen the presentations. đ
quadbikeAjai Shuklas response to critical replies on his blog.
Broadsword said…
Aaah, Iâm not surprised to see all the usual rants⌠so here are some rejoinders from me. Iâm sure none of you will be surprised to see me come out of my corner punching.
Firstly⌠why do I not mention that India is engaged in a partnership with Russia to produce a âfifth generationâ PAK-FA? Simple answer! The PAK-FA is not a fifth generation fighter, and will never be unless India funds every paisa of the Russian R&D that is needed to make it so. I happen to know a great deal about the PAK-FA programme. And youâll have to wait to read about it, which I promise will happen soon.
Vishnu.vyasan writes about the FGFA: âAs i last heard IAF has plans to procure almost 214 of this mighty beasts, which will eat alive the j-20 any day.â All I can say is: ha ha! A serious defence analyst at work!!
Secondly⌠everyone keeps harping on the âsignificant delaysâ that the F-35 is undergoing. Of course the F-35 is undergoing delays! Which high-tech fighter aircraft development has taken place without delays? Why does everyone forget the delays in the Eurofighter Typhoon programme, which make the F-35 delays seem insignificant by comparison? Iâll tell you why! Because the Typhoon is in production now. And so too, folks, will the F-35 be in a couple of years. They will no longer matter.
Thirdly⌠you guys really do revel in memories about the way India was treated when it was an opinionated, sermonizing, going-nowhere, second-rung power⌠citing, for example, US sanctions and âtechnology denialâ regimes. The sorry truth is that, while some of that is true, it is irrelevant today, when India has moved ahead. Sadly, none of you are ready or confident enough to think like citizens of an emerging global power, which cannot again be treated shabbily by anyone, least of all the United States, which is predicating its entire global strategy on convergence with India.
If India falls short today of global power status, or takes longer getting there than is logically necessary, it will be because of wimps like you⌠who hold back India from thinking like a global power. A global power is a global power for one and only one reason: its people and its rulers are convinced that it is a global power. I simply donât believe the Americans can play denial regimes or sanctions games with us any longer. Because I am absolutely certain that India is an emerging global power.
The only thing standing in Indiaâs way is a bagful of whining, under-confident ninnies who keep bleating on blogs about the days when they were whipped by the schoolyard bully. If you think like a mouse, you will remain a mouse.
Broadsword said…
What astonishes me the most about the anti-US whining brigade is this: they see no dichotomy in buying bagfuls of C-130J Super Hercules for special forces operations (probably the most sensitive ops that there can be, as the Osama killing demonstrated); or billions of dollars worth of C-17s (which will be crucial to our reaction to any surprise attack by the Chinese)… and at the same time cursing the US and whining about kill switches and sanctions and insisting that we cannot buy anything from the US because they were unfaithful to us during the Kushan dynasty!
Hilarious! Where is your intellectual integrity folks?
@ Sanket Jagtap
You believe that the US will not give source codes to any partner?
Sanket Sahib, Washington is already set to give Israel certain source codes in exchange for coming on board the F-35 programme. And India will come on board with a much bigger order. What would you say that gives us in terms of leverage?
@ Aditya
Are you really, really, seriously arguing that India now has to buy either the Rafale or the Eurofighter because there will be legal action by them it we donât?! I would be embarrassed making that argumentâŚ
Youâre asking when India can get its first F-35s? A top Lockheed Martin executive has visited India to make it clear that the IAF can be delivered the F-35 from 2015 onwards.
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2011/11/end-this-mmrca-hara-kiri.html
quadbikeParts of Reply Ajai Shukla (Indian journo and former Tankman) gave in his Broadsword blog on the F 35 for India issue. Some of it seems relevant here.
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2011/11/end-this-mmrca-hara-kiri.html
Firstly⌠why do I not mention that India is engaged in a partnership with Russia to produce a âfifth generationâ PAK-FA? Simple answer! The PAK-FA is not a fifth generation fighter, and will never be unless India funds every paisa of the Russian R&D that is needed to make it so. I happen to know a great deal about the PAK-FA programme. And youâll have to wait to read about it, which I promise will happen soon.Vishnu.vyasan writes about the FGFA: âAs i last heard IAF has plans to procure almost 214 of this mighty beasts, which will eat alive the j-20 any day.â All I can say is: ha ha! A serious defence analyst at work!!
quadbikeYou really seem not to want to understand
India wants technology transfer so they can develop their industries, and the F-35 brings nothing in that regard
buying the F-35 means, basically, scraping your own aeronautical industry (when they talk about single supplier, they MEAN IT @ LM đ )
You want you air force to be entirely dependant on the good will of the USA? buy F-35
You want your independance? forget about the F-35
plain and simple
I can understand your argument with respect to ToT, buit buying 189 F 35 is not going to destroy Indian aviation industry.
And with Su 30 MKI, FGFA there is no quesiton of LM being a single supplier, and India being dependent on U.S goodwill.
quadbikeRead what I said: Wishful thinking, ain’t going to happen, India wants ToT, industrial, strategic benefits, US ‘Will Not’ share, again, ain’t going to happen! Full stop! :rolleyes:
Did I say it was going to happen. Infact I said its unlikely now. I just said its what I would like to happen.
F 35 will be operated by India one day but possibly by the IN not IAF.
quadbikeRead what I said. India may not get it in 2015 but it can get the F 35 if it wants to. Its on offer. India should just scrap this and buy F 35.
Future IAF fifth gen fleet
FGFA
F 35
AMCA
yummy
quadbikeFrom the above logic you have to question the MRCA deal as well. Look MRCA is behind Schedule and set to be over budget because of the choice of finalists. Why not get a next gen platform for nearly the same price, yes we may have to wait a year or two more but it would stay relevant for a longer period of time as well.
quadbikeAlso to counter China India needs the Awacs equipped with a rotary launcher for air to air missiles!
What ?
As for the MMRCA i would rather have a F 35.
That is unlikely to happen however and between the Typhoon & Rafale the Rafale the latter makes more sense. (cheaper, better striker, AESA already there, committed home nation etc.)
quadbikelol, what nonsense.
Talking about scrapping MMRCA is one thing (albeit short-sighted) but replacing it with an F-35 buy? Yeah, right. :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: Only Schedule 2015 is doubtful if India says it wants the F 35 it will get it.
quadbikei.e., you are a cool guy, most of what you are saying show you are knowledgeable but you should have known better when you see a pointless discussion đ
Yes he is very knowledgeable but very myopic on certain things he don’t agree that an aircraft is defined basically by its airframe, I have never seen anyone disagreeing to that ever.
quadbikeWhats laughable Teer is that you actually find offense at “jingoistic” attitudes, or is it only when someone else calls you out on it? This is a military aviation forum, not crocheting for seniors forum. Scratch anyone here and you’ll find a fanboy just screaming to get out. If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. As for my spelling, you have officially failed at the the internet. If niggling over spelling and grammar is your best argument then I don’t know what to say beyond that. You have not had one single on topic post in this entire thread and the only thing you have achieved is to take potshots and snipe. Par course considering the signal to noise ratio of your posts is lower than a flatulent baby. I can summarize any number of your posts here as follows
I can’t believe you of all people would ask others for sources or accuse someone else of group think. Considering your own are the personal blogs of bad writer’s of worse Clanceyesque military wank fiction that populate BR, a lair of thoughtful open minded free thinkers if there ever was one.
All he asked for was to type proper so he can understand you better. I think your insults are over the top and undeserving.
As for BR that is expected its mainly an Indian forum, you get similar attitudes in Pakistani & Chinese forums as well.
quadbikePray the above happens.
quadbikeI think if there is a conflict sometime soon those babies will be refurbished and be flying.
quadbikeYou could also argue that Russian jet engine technology is entirely due to us Brits handing over examples of Rolls Royce engines to the Russians…what was it that Stalin said…
You know how that story goes don’t you ? The Brits bet their engine on the Billiards table and got beat fair and square đ
And were true gentlemen and stuck to their word and gave engines and blueprints. Hardly illegal copying. đ
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