Right, because they are willing to wait on the definitive engine (assuming, it is even allowed for export. Big if.).

If India would have wanted PAK-FA ASAP, with interim engines, that would not have even been possible. All production will be taken up by the 1st RuAF batch for most of this decade.

:rolleyes: Not a Big IF its from IAF itself we are getting the definitive engine.

And in the IAF thread its clearly mentioned first AC in service by 2017. 😉

Money speaks.

Damn there goes my wish for 40 Nuclear Strike Rafales outside the MRCA deal & Otaku’s for 40 Su 34s 🙂

One would hope not, but you never know. Even when India has special relationship with USSR in the 80s (Indian pilots trialing Mi-24 in A-stan, getting super early looks @ MiG-29, etc etc) they got “export” grade equipment often.

I have read some rumors that the new-gen engine might not be allowed for export, not to India, not to anyone. Don’t really see why there is any logic behind denying India of all nations the newest engine, but laws are laws.

I have read reports that Indian FGFA will come with the definitive PAK FA engine and not any interim solutions. :diablo:

How exactly is Eagle superior to Su-30MKI in BVR? We are assuming late 90s right? What radar would the US have offered that is better than BARS? Nobody would have given India the brand new AESAs (were they even around? Even then the APG-63(V2) was not exactly a supremely successful set).

The MKI further actually has IRST, and better aerodynamic performance..can carry more AAMs…including longer ranges weapons and IR BVR weapons… So no, not buying it.

:confused: IIRC the first Ks delivered in the 90s did not come with BARS, only the definitive MKI version came with it, a similar deal could have been struck with Americans with later versions having the AESA, and eventually the whole fleet.

The AMRAAM C-5 onwards outranges the R 77, Aim 9-x is > R 73, can carry more A2G ordinance, can use CFTs for increased range, I doubt the MKI can carry more AAMs than an F 15SG.

Re: Mig-29 vs F-16 discussion…looks like some Indian “experts” here don’t even know their own history.

Pakistani F-16A did not (refused to) engage Indian Mig-29A during the 1999 conflict. I wonder why?…. considering they were of the same generation.

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Interesting pic of a Abrams tank trying to squash an Iraqi Mig-25

Because the Pakistani F 16s were early block F 16 As and they were also denied spares and had resorted to cannibalising to keep their limited fleet flying. So had they crossed the LOC and got shot down, that would be two less fighters defending Pakistan in the anticipated larger conflict.

There’s definitely differences between export and domestic aircraft armament

May be but I doubt they are that much different when it comes to India. 😉

If we are talking about history, then the likeliest time MiG-29s and F-16s would have clashed, with both being operated by advanced air arms, was during the cold war.

And, not to beat a dead horse, the poor lil F-16 would have been extremely disadvantaged in both BRV and WVR. 😉

Anyways this argument has been done many times before, lets not pollute threads with it and other gross generalizations and misconceptions born of Cold War propaganda.

How exactly ? The F 16 was constantly upgraded and had superior avionics to the MIG 29 just before the end of the cold war. The 29A/C would not have fared well at all against a block 30 F 16. Yes I know thats not the first generation F 16, but kudos to them for bringing out a better model while the MIG was still pretty much vanilla.

I’ve read that some time ago, yes, but it was in the pre-MKI era. I’m not sure whether this still qualifies..

The Bison IMO is very capable but putting it in the League of any Mirage 2000 is stretching it a bit too far.

I find it quite peculiar that people easily slip into these “performance alone” style comparisons. How can you disregard something as important as a price tag? I assume you have an Aventador or Veyron in your garage

I have a Volkswagen, but if you ask me a fantasy question I would have chosen the Aventador. My question was like this had India had the money it has now and relations with U.S were at all time best, then may be India would have chosen the Eagle over the Flanker.

I have serious doubts. US Congress is not yet ready for technology transfers of such extent as required to win MRCA

The MRCA ToT is all about percentages both LM & Boeing had made it clear that they will meet the required percentage. its not tot but the cold shoulder Obama has been giving India offlate that led to their fighters being eliminated.

That’s a very gross generalization, IMHO. It’s type specific. MiG-31 ended up with PESA which surpassed anything that has flown at that time (technology-wise). OTOH, Su-27 and MiG-29 were pretty unlucky to rely at NIIP which struggled hard with slotted array technology with 7 year delay. So they ended up with an interim solution – Cassegrains in order to push the birds into service quickly. Had the Soviet ministry chosen Phazotron from the very start, the birds might have looked completely different today (with N010 and N011 instead of N019 and N001). One wrong decision…

Anyway, both 27 and 29 were meant to be replaced by full fledged types (MiG-29M and old Su-35). We already know why this didn’t happen.. Has little to do with tech specs.

The Americans simply did not have a requirement for something like the MIG 31 at the time, its a unique aircraft in many ways tailores for the needs of SU/Russia alone, that is why it had no success in the export market.

But at what time frame were the 29M old Su 35 was proposed while their prototypes were flying the west had equiavalant fighters already in service.

From what I can remember, HAF has qualified the Mirage as one trick pony for aerial fights, but a damn good one. The F-16, OTOH, is an allrounder, very good in all areas but inferior in DACT. This is what I know from what I have read.

That is because the Mirage is very limited compared to the F 16 in the A2G department. HAF is just putting their resources to good use that is all and it don’t reflect on the ability of the Mirage over the F 16 in A2A but rather reflects on the inability of the Mirage in A2G. Turks don’t operate the Mirages, so obviously it makes sense that way as well.

They hired a few from Poland. Mainly to evaluate some new tactics to minimize risk from helmet cued Archers of the SyAAF.

Still can’t find an article I saved on the Israeli evaluation of the MIG 29, lets say they were rather unimpressed.

Care to name those MiG-29 customers? I personally am not aware of any.

Malaysia(so badly want to can’t no cash:(),Hungary, Romania & thats not counting the countries that get rid of them in the 1990s.

t depends, IMHO. F-16 is a better striker because a great care was taken to expand avionics modes and available weaponry. MiG is generally a better close in fighter. As for BVR,
Block 50 looks pretty on par with MiG-29M2 but teh Block 60 shall have the edge until MiG-35 is out (if, at all)

OTOH, the Viper is an inferior platform becuse it offers less upgrade potential. Look at UAEAF Vipers, how they look like to accomodate all the avionics.

All vipers with CFT including the Block 60 can fly without them if needed, even then they will compare favourably wrt range with all but the humpback Fulcrums.

I think MiG should have been a single engined fighter. In present form it is too heavy for a light fighter and too small for a heavy one. That means, you get much less upgrade potential for almost the same cost and same maintenance effort as with Su-30.

These mid-class fighters never sold too well. Look at F-18s, Tornados, Rafales or Typhoons. All struggling to find enough customers.

Its not just that the Fulcrum should have had better engines/radar to begin with and updates should have been on time. Its a great airframe wasted..

May be not, but if the Americans offer India an offer they cannot refuse, may be removing all restrictions on dual use tech, lobbying for Indian UNSC seat etc, they won’t care about all the strigns or anything.

Those thigns are worth more to India than fighter ToT or source codes, like I said it will depend on what U.S can offer India.