swiss can close all your secret bank accounts :diablo:

Or worse publish them :diablo:

The point is India has never been able to muster up the leverage to impose this ‘sell to us to sell to them’ condition on anyone before, so what is stopping the likes of France from selling to India and Pakistan like everyone else is doing?

If you tried to suggest to the French they are somehow minor league compared to the Americans and Russians, chances are you will only manage to **** them off enough to make them determined to sell to Pakistan to make a point.

By all means if they want their pennies to our billions let them !

So now its India gets offered better kit instead of ‘you sell to India or Pakistan’? You sure changed your tune quick.

Thats in the case of the U.S. Pakistan without U.S Aid will be too broke to buy even U.S stuff.

When was the last time China bought anything of note from Russia? Besides from China and India, who else has been a regular billion dollar buyer of Russian arms? And since when were the Russian arms industry so well off they could afford to loose India’s billions now that China’s billions have dried up?

Why would they risk loosing India’s billions by making a few measly millions selling engines to Pakistan?

Either India does not have anywhere close to the leverage and pull you lot seem to think, or the Russians have to be absolute idiots to make such a move if the Indians indeed have so much influence.

I think we all know which is true here.

As for the French, well you are missing a critical logical step.

India will only have influence to persuade the French to not sell anything to Pakistan if they stand to earn far more from Indian contracts, but that applies equally to all parties.

There is only one winner in a competition, but many competitors, so how to you keep them all happy? If the French don’t win a contract, they have nothing to loose selling anything they like to Pakistan do they?

But if you rig a competition to keep up your part of a some undertable bargain, first of all, you have compromised your own interest as you are not getting the best equipment/deal, secondly you likely just pissed off all the other competitors, as they will know if India chose a package not based solely on merit.

That applies no matter who wins any one of your competitions. So no matter who wins, everyone else is pissed off, unless the decision is based purely on merit, but in that case, your threats are totally meaningless, as are any quid pro quo offers you make behind close doors.

That is the problem with making threats you cannot back up, since the other side can easily call your bluff and turn the whole thing around against you.

So instead of you saying, ‘you either sell to India or Pakistan’, the Franch could easily turn about and say ‘either you buy our kit or the Pakistanis will’ to you. What are you going to do then?

Again with respect to Russia they have more leverage because majority of Indian AF operate Russian jets the same with Army and Navy. India needs Russian support.

With French they dont have as much market as the Russians or Americans. They cannot and will not risk losing a big Indian deal by suppling to Pakistan.

There are some things China makes that are better than what they French have to offer, and there are certain things the French have that are better than what China has to offer.

If Pakistan wants to mix and match, that’s their choice. Stop trying to change the subject.

Pakistan always seem to prefer Western equipment if possible.

I touched a nerve, the subject is very relevent.

My Guess would be.

AIM 9L-M

AMRAAM C-5

A-Darter

SD-10

And about France: Sure they play ball with you now as the MRCA tender is still on. But what if India decides to go for EF2K? What would stop France from accepting a lucurative offer from Pakistan?

12 billion $ worth of submarines

Mistrals.

Surely more to come in future as well.

Risky for sure. But prolly the least risky option of “the Major Players” (Save PRC). So what is left then? Israel and SA make a lot of nice toys, and sell to whomever can cash up. But they dont have the major hardware Pakistan needs. Only major player left is Sweden. But shes bound by very strict export laws, so no idea to even try it.

Sweden may be an option Pakistan already has the SAAB AWACS, but i doubt having Gripens with American engines would solve the particular problem we are addressing.

Actually China has come so far that its only a matter of time when they perfect an engine in the RD 93 class, so in a conflict in the near to near distant future PAF is well covered.

I can’t see Israel and Pakistan doing business. Turkey, Brazil & South Africa can surely help PAF with weaponry.

India always adopted this policy its nothing new. It tried its best with the Americans, May be its one of the reasons why India did not choose the F 16. It has tried to derail the RD-93 deal without success as well.

But the scenarios are different.

a. American defense companies are not in dire need of the Indian market like Europeans are because their domestic market is big enough.

b. India has little leverage over Russia and cannot play hardball with them because of the sheer number of products which we need spares from them and the number of Jvs we are involved with them.

c. Not the same in the case of cash starved French/Europeans they could really do with our money and its not really an option for them to take Pakistan millions instead of our billions.

There is already evidence as French have openly stated they won’t be selling weapons to Pakistan

French have much bigger deals to do with India. The new submarine tender to which DCNS appears to be a favourite is worth more than the MRCA deal and they are also trying to push for the Mistral. France has repeatedly said they won’t be selling stuff on recent statements made in India. So I think PAF may have to look elsewhere.