Maybe you missed these: If the AB is used for a few seconds, the tanks will not be empty. Also, in Hwang case, the guy was in combat, shoting down a Mig 29 IIRC. Is this a normal situation, or an emmergency ? 🙂 By the way, from the story it doesn’t result that is was maneuvring at supersonic (not to mention 1.5M!), instead it seems that he flew subsonic, chaged course towards the bandit and after this started the AB. Yes, the info it was on Raythoen site. But it seems that it will go first at F 18E/F and F 22 units, not to F 15 .

Does “That’s why, letting aside the fact that will empty the fuel tanks like hell” indicate you were talking about cruising in AB at supersonic speed? I don’t think so.

I also don’t think entering combat is an extreme emergency situation. Combat is what a fighter plane like the F-15C is built for.

Any fighter can go supersonic (in full AB of course), but will have the maneuvrability of a flying brick (read 1G). That’s why, letting aside the fact that will empty the fuel tanks like hell, pilots avoid going in AB unless in extreme emergency. OTOH, peoples tend to forget one thing: at 1.5M, at 10,000m, the Raptor can pull 6G! A minor detail, but it might help some people why the Raptor is entirely different from previous fighters.

Avoid going in AB unless in extreme emergency? Captain Jeff Hwang lit up AB immediately after he got an unknown contact in his radar and again to keep line abreast with his buddy. I don’t think he was in extreme emergency.

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4653&highlight=HDTWS

Without an ID and not tactically sound to cross the border at the time, I elected to pump our formation in a right-hand turn through south and called, “Push it up, burner, tapes on!” (we were initially flying 0.85M, 28K’) and rolled out heading west/southwest.

The target check turns towards northwest (about 14L aspect) and descends to high teens. Boomer and I checked about 30¡ left to northeast for cutoff. This check turn slung me aft in the formation, so I stroke it up to full AB to get more line abreast. I called “Combat 1, arm hot” and saw Boomer’s wing tanks come off with bright flames under the wing. Pretty impressive! I was well over the Mach when I punched my tanks off, and the jet jumped up abruptly (you can see it in the HUD).

Cheers,
Sunho

BTW, had any fighter – be it F-4 Phantoms in Vietnam and the Middle East or F-15 Eagles in the Gulf and Kosovo – ever fired BVR missiles at supersonic speed in real combat?

Cheers,
Sunho

I encourage anyone here to provide a proof of a single supersonic missile kill in the whole history of aerial warfare. Mankind has been flying supersonic since late 40s, you know. If speeds are that important even in BVR arena, surely someone must already have used it to his own favor.

I already raised that question here http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=63487 but nobody replied yet.

I’d appreciate if anybody could let us know at what speed the F-15s and F-16s were flying when they launched AMRAAMs in the following nine combat kills.

1. Iraq, 27 Dec 92, F-16 shot down MiG-25 with AIM-120A
2. Iraq, 17 Jan 93, F-16 shot down MiG-23 with AIM-120A
3. Bosnia, 28 Feb 94, F-16 shot down Galeb with AIM-120A
4. Kosovo, 24 Mar 99, F-16 shot down MiG-29 with AIM-120B
5. Kosovo, 24 Mar 99, F-15 shot down MiG-29 with AIM-120C
6. Kosovo, 24 Mar 99, F-15 shot down MiG-29 with AIM-120C
7. Kosovo, 26 Mar 99, F-15 shot down MiG-29 with AIM-120C
8. Kosovo, 26 Mar 99, F-15 shot down MiG-29 with AIM-120C
9. Kosovo, 4 May 99, F-16 shot down MiG-29 with AIM-120A

Cheers,
Sunho

AFAIK, the F-22A’s fastest AMRAAM launching speed proven in a real test is Mach 1.5.

http://www.edwards.af.mil/archive/2002/2002-archive-super_raptor.html

“Flying Raptor 4007, F/A-22 test pilot Maj. Jim Dutton launched an AIM-120 AMRAAM from an altitude of 35,000 feet while supercruising without afterburners at an airspeed of 1.5 Mach.”

Cheers,
Sunho

The ability to quickly accelerate to an ideal speed for launching BVR missiles would surely be important. Cruising at Mach 1.72 would be less important if the Raptor would have to slow down to, say, Mach 1.2 to fire AMRAAMs.

Cheers,
Sunho

Clean in a slight dive it could probably break Mach 1 without afterburner. I’ve heard F-15 and F-16 pilots say that they can supercruise in certain conditions.

However, going Mach 1 clean really doesn’t mean anything. Now if you were talking about supercruise in how the Raptor or even the Eurofighter uses it, then no.

Of course I am not interested in supercrusing without any weapon. What I’d like to know is if the Su-30MKI with standard AAM load (no bomb, no fuel tank) can go over Mach 1 without using afterburners.

Cheers,
Sunho

actually we are looking at T-50 for AJT replacement of TA-4SU…..so there might be a slight chance of it……though tentatively F-35 is “supposed” to replace F-16….

OK but would the RSAF consider the A-50 as well? As you know A-4SU Super Skyhawks based in Singapore were retired last year while a few still solider on in France as trainers.

Cheers,
Sunho