I’m totally getting it!
Looks amazing.
I have presented the photo to a photographic forum to see what photographers think. The link should take you to the forum, but I will post their verdict here.
Please post here, if there is anything you would like to add regarding the picture. Not why you think it’s real (we will assume it’s real until proven otherwise), but why you think it’s fake – no AC technical details, we don’t want to frighten the photographers :p
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/beyond-basics/184981-picture-fake.html
Seems they had a good run. Great to hear at least 2 will survive, but surely more will be on display in civilian run museums.
With air force maintenance, I bet they still have some service life is any operator gets a hold on them.
The picture could be from some test range of sorts. Maybe a year, or two, after the war. No big rush to snap your mates around the AC, just maybe a picture before its taken to the smelter.
I have spend a lot of the day (thanks boss), trawling through me109 pictures on the net, but i have not yet found another image of this White/Yellow 20. Nothing unusual i guess, but i had hoped to find a clue at least.
Here is a model photo to compare. I say the ebay image is real.

Could someone please direct me to stories about the large amount picture faking, that is said to go on in the WWII photo collection community?
I’m aware that bogus historic AC parts are sometime on sale, but anyone can make up a bit of AC skin with a swastika in 5 minutes and the marked if far bigger. Creating a model so perfect, that a whole historic aviation forum are discussing its authenticity, would take a huge amount of time and it would pay better, if you just sold the model.
Photos of K-4’s and late war aircraft are rare, it’s not like allied stuff, the number of photos is low but there are alot of people interested in late war german aircraft and some have deep pockets, as I noted before an undiscovered oirignal good photo of a k-4 could fetch around the 1000 euro mark I have personally watched this happen on other german fighter photos and what may seem like a nice photo to alot is really a goldmine for some collectors and they are willing to pay, so faking is worth it, even the most basic of german stuff is faked today, stuff you couldn’t imagine why people would but they do!
Not surprised really, but quite a lot of money for a picture, which is now available online. Print and age = everyone got an “authentic” picture.
Im pretty sure its a period image of a K-4, and I’ll be following the auction, just to see where it ends. I’m not bidding.
Out of curiosity and not being a collector in any way, is it simply because it is a mystery that it attracts you? There is nothing between the lines hee, just a genuine question. How do you put a value on it, if its provenance is unclear?
Well, I would not pay much (maybe around the current ebay price – $12), as I’m not really a collector either. But as you suggest, it’s purely the”mystery” quality that attracts me. Without being any kind of expert, it looks like a period picture to me and as such it’s a nice image.
If I believed that it truly was a dead airman hanging out the cockpit, I would not have any interest in it, that’s a bit too morbid for me.
I would think, that most WWII images on ebay are without any provenance, or at least not better documented than this image. Would someone go to the amount of trouble to fake an image, which might sell for around $50, when there are millions of actual period images out there?
Not worth too much I guess, but still a nice and unusual image. If I found it in a shop/marked I wouldn’t hesitate to buy it.
A new guess would be: Yellow/White 20 – 10/JG 53.
It’s a bit odd. The MG breeches are open indicating that people have been around it and been playing with it and messing with it, alot of damage occurs to belly landed 109’s afterwards in the hands of soldiers, so much of the tail damage could have happened after belly landing but if soldiers have been around the cockpit area and playing with the breeches I have a very hard time believing they would leave a body in the cockpit, no.1 he’s in the way of all the souveniers! It seems like a modeller would love to make a diorama like this but it’s not particulary believable.
The tail wheel is down indicating that this k-4 had the tail wheel locked down as happened on many k-4’s but the tail wheel doors are open which seems strange, usually with retractable tail wheels locked down the doors are locked shut.
Also where are the wing large tire fairings? These are made out of very substantial and thick metal and riveted on top of the existing wing with the cutout for the balloon tyres but there is no sign of it?
How is the pilot sitting upright? His back should be held up by the cockpit bathtub that has apparently been blown away, also the MW tank is not damaged but that area has extreme damage? What’s he held up by (modelling glue!)
Around the firewall I would expect to see the U/C selector and drop tank valve as it is light natural metal but there is no sign of it.
Quite a few strange things really, I am not convinced, if anyone diasagrees with these observations the please say.
Matt
The bold part of the quote makes perfect sense (the rest makes sense too). Soldiers were brutalised by the war and would remove an enemy soldier at the drop of a hat, if it provided access to loot, or souvenirs. There is no way a pilot would have been present at the time the picture was taken.
However, I don’t think the AC looks like a model.
Even if a friend of the photographer crawled into the cockpit to pose, I think he would have looked more real. The pose is very unnatural (for living or dead humans). The “pilot” looks like a dummy to me. Could it have been some kind of experiment?
I feel Soviet propaganda would have made sure, that the viewer had no doubt about who shot down this aircraft – the red army. Arranging the scene, so some red army personnel, or soviet landmark, could be seen. The image is just too generic to make good propaganda.
For anyone trying to identify the aircraft, my guess is, that it was taken in Europe by Americans, since the seller offers mostly American pictures (the Reichsverteidigund also indicates a European location). The K-4 was operative from around October 1944.
I will now dig into my books and see if I can identify the markings further.
I love how the article states, that the pedal in the cockpit once helped control the rudder – well, it helped a lot!
What about the Third Man with Orson Welles and Michael Rennie
Oh yes.
The Good German was also set during the immediate post-war period – not a bad film.
I always hoped that band of brothers would be followed up in a more original way rather than just doing the same thing in the pacific as is being done.
I liked the idea of the following of a group of pilots for 10 episodes, obv america has the money, so maybe if there were a few guys in an eagle squadron together, fighting the BOB, raids across france, supporting bombers, hoping across europe with the advance, that kind of thing, real aircraft, real stories a more everyday tribute to airmen.
But as mentioned, a big screen film of the channel dash would be epic, living near manston i can say that filming any of it hear would be out! But a premier on the airfield would be nice
I think we would all like that, but the truth is, that pilots never saw much of the actual war – at least not in a cinematic sense. Band of Brothers worked because we followed them from D-Day to Berchtesgaden and saw the land as the war drew to a close. Following a group of pilots based somewhere in southern England will just not have the same general draw.
It will become based on personal stories (not necessarily war related) and there are better (cheaper and more popular) settings for telling stories like that.
My recommendation would be ‘I Fly Alone’
Starring BILL BAILEY its bound to be good….:p