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Mondariz

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  • in reply to: Why Dakota? (The origin of aircraft names in general now) #1205686
    Mondariz
    Participant

    If only the Tomtit had been a fighter….

    in reply to: Why Dakota? (The origin of aircraft names in general now) #1205740
    Mondariz
    Participant

    Mark, don’t ruin my system 😀

    I grap my coat too…….

    Maybe I should have written it on a piece of paper, rather than thinking out in forum writing.

    in reply to: Why Dakota? (The origin of aircraft names in general now) #1205763
    Mondariz
    Participant

    Transport.
    Albemarle (Duke title)

    Light Bomber.
    Blenheim (castle/battle honour)

    Medium Bomber.
    Wellesley (surname)
    Hereford (Vicount title)
    Wellington (Duke title)
    Hampden (Vicount title)
    Buckingham (Duke and Earl title)

    Torpedo bomber.
    Beaufort (Duke title)

    The only system i see is the connection to the nobility and the idea of matching first letters to something.

    in reply to: Why Dakota? (The origin of aircraft names in general now) #1205782
    Mondariz
    Participant

    JDK, yes thats what Im trying to do, I just wanted to group the names first. Eventually a pattern will emerge (I hope).

    in reply to: Why Dakota? (The origin of aircraft names in general now) #1205794
    Mondariz
    Participant

    The word Albemarle (or Albermarle) is an early variant of the French Aumale (Latin, Alba Marla, or English, White Marl, marl being a type of fertile soil), other forms being Aubemarle and Aumerle, and is described in the patent of nobility granted in 1697 by William III to Arnold Joost van Keppel as “a town and territory in the Dukedom of Normandy.”

    The name Beaufort refers to a castle in Champagne, France (now Montmorency-Beaufort). It is the only current Dukedom to take its name from a place outside the British Isles.

    From Wikipedia.

    Blenheim parish lies c. 8 miles (12 km.) north-west of Oxford, adjoining the west side of Woodstock. (fn. 20) In origin it was Woodstock Park, an ancient royal hunting reserve granted with Woodstock manor by Queen Anne in 1705 to John Churchill, duke of Marlborough, to honour his victory at the battle of Blenheim. Granted with the park were the king’s houses (sometimes called the royal palace or manor house of Woodstock), demolished soon afterwards. (fn. 21) The duke’s new house there was called first Blenheim House then Blenheim Palace and the park became Blenheim Park.

    Woodstock Park was extra-parochial, its tithes having been granted to Godstow abbey, allegedly in the 12th century. (fn. 22) After the Dissolution the Crown granted the tithes to George Owen, the king’s physician, whose son George sold them in 1612 to John Whitton; they were then held by the Whittons, comptrollers of the park, until William Whitton sold them to the duke in 1705. In 1860 they were formally merged in the land. (fn. 23) Under an Act of 1857 the extra-parochial area was deemed a civil parish, Blenheim Park; (fn. 24) it comprised 2,269 a., although the park itself was slightly larger, having taken in land from adjacent parishes. (fn. 25) In 1897 the parish was extended to the line of the park wall near Seven Arches Bridge, taking in c. 1 a. from Woodstock borough. (fn. 26) In 1954 a new civil parish, Blenheim, was created by adding to the former Blenheim Park parish 40 a. at the south-east corner of the park, including land outside the walls, all formerly part of Hensington Without. The new parish comprised 2,310 a. (935 ha.) and included all the park except an area in the south-east around the Lince which remained in Bladon. (fn. 27)

    From http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=4956

    I do read posts, but I was writing mine while you posted yours.

    in reply to: Why Dakota? (The origin of aircraft names in general now) #1205801
    Mondariz
    Participant

    I just wanted to run through the names and see what is what connections we can find.

    Wellesley. Surname for the line of Dukes of Wellington. As far as I can see its not a location in the UK, although there is a Wellesley township in Canada.

    Hereford. There is a Viscount Hereford title in the English peerage. There is also a Hereford county constituency.

    Wessex. There is an Earl of Wessex (Prince Edward), so its now an Earldom. Despite having been defunct for 900 years. There was no peerage title connected to Wessex during, or before, WWII. Its also a historic kingdom.

    Wellington.
    See Wellesley. There are a number of Wellington towns and villages. Its the capital of New Zealand.

    Albemarle. The title Duke of Albemarle, but this has not been used much. However, there is a title of Earl of Albemarle. There is no Albemarle location in the UK.

    Buckingham. There has been both a Duke and an Earl of Buckingham. The title is not used and was not used during WWII. Its also the seat of the British monarch (Buckingham palace). There are a few Buckingham towns in England.

    Blenheim. See my previous post.

    Beaufort. There is a Duke title. The name is from a French castle, not a Uk location.There is a Beaufort village in Wales.

    There really is nothing that would link the names in any specific way. Although they all are somewhat connected to the English peerage system (with a slight twist for Blenheim).

    in reply to: Why Dakota? (The origin of aircraft names in general now) #1205919
    Mondariz
    Participant

    Hampden was/is (these areas aren’t so well known now) an area in the UK, same as Wellesley, Hereford, Wessex, Wellington, Albemarle, Buckingham, Blenheim, Beaufort etc.
    They happen to have Dukes of those areas thus carrying the name.

    I think Blenheim is in Germany. However, in Woodstock, Oxfordshire, there is a Blenheim Palace. This castle was build for the 1st Duke of Marlborough as thanks for his victory in the battle of Blenheim.

    Is there an actual place in the UK called Blenheim too?

    Side note: There is no duke of Blenheim.

    in reply to: The "Wot Plane" Thread. (Game rules in Post #1) #1205957
    Mondariz
    Participant

    Thats correct Topspeed.

    in reply to: Why Dakota? (The origin of aircraft names in general now) #1206853
    Mondariz
    Participant

    See Dave’s post which is a quote from the Air Min. End of story.

    Sorry, this isn’t the first load of obvious balls that Boeing (and other companies through their PR focussed websites) have foisted on people, and company ‘histories’ are notoriously unreliable. When researching, I never use the public company history as a reliable source, and it is so often wrong as well. Company papers etc (the ‘private’ history) are, of course, a goldmine.

    As well as being a very entertaining thread, and a useful one, it’s a good case study in how to evaluate evidence…

    Regards,

    There is no specific mention of the name Dakota in the AM quote.

    Surely we can locate the oldest use of the name Dakota somewhere. It must be a decision that was written down.

    in reply to: Why Dakota? (The origin of aircraft names in general now) #1207032
    Mondariz
    Participant

    That acronym is a classic case of reverse engineering history! And beside no company would have used a ‘K’ just to make it fit a type name – really is rubbish and a good example of how websites copy the same ill informed information and then further purpetrate it.

    The Dakota I was built for the British being the RAF version of the C-47A.

    Perhaps the K was originally a C and someone realised that replacing the C, with a K, would make the name fit the naming policy.

    in reply to: Why Dakota? (The origin of aircraft names in general now) #1207041
    Mondariz
    Participant

    We have yet to see an official story other than the Douglas Aircraft ect.

    It might not be the gospel, but its what they say on the Boeing website. Any other background story is at the moment pure speculation. This story has the backing of Boeing, of which Douglas is now a division.

    If the acronym story has to be disproven, we need a higher level of authority to do so, perhaps a document from RAF, MOD, or AM.

    http://www.boeing.com/history/mdc/skytrain.htm

    in reply to: Why Dakota? (The origin of aircraft names in general now) #1207214
    Mondariz
    Participant

    An article in “Flight” from April, 1943 quotes an American Air Force officer as saying that the name “Dakota” is used exclusively by the RAF.

    Best wishes
    Steve P

    Yes, that would be military use. I’m looking to see if there wsa a civilian use of the name Dakota

    in reply to: Why Dakota? (The origin of aircraft names in general now) #1207215
    Mondariz
    Participant

    I think you are right, but I will be looking never-the-less.

    At the moment I’m leaning towards the Douglas Aircraft KOmercial TAransport story. As the name Dakota is far too obscure to find its way into British aircraft designations in 1940 (at least I find it obscure).

    Were the British Dakota I specially produced for the British, or was it just a number of aircraft shipped?

    in reply to: Why Dakota? (The origin of aircraft names in general now) #1207232
    Mondariz
    Participant

    Indeed SteveP.
    Mondariz, the Americans GENERALLY don’t refer to the DC-3 as Dakota, hence the initial question of this thread. Can you show us these sources or evidence? I’ve never herad that before and if you are correct it would certainly blast our theories out of the water!

    Its not evidence, just notes on various webpages. I’m not saying that the DC-3 was called Dakota before it entered British service, I’m just looking for evidence that it might have been.

    As of now, I have not been able to find anything that points towards pre-war use of the name Dakota.

    Ill find the pages again and post the links, but as I said, its not evidence of anything, just another theory.

    in reply to: Why Dakota? (The origin of aircraft names in general now) #1207369
    Mondariz
    Participant

    I have seen a few places, where the Dakota name is connected to a pre-war naming of the DC-3. This could mean that the British simply adapted the civilian name, as it sounded well american, or otherwise fitted with their naming policies.

    I’m currently searching for a pre-war document, or picture, where the DC-3, or a variant thereof, is refered to as a Dakota.

Viewing 15 posts - 376 through 390 (of 1,411 total)