No way.. I repeat, no way!!! Even F-35A will have problems to get below $130mil, remember these words of mine…
Could be, i am just quoting what i have read in the Washington Post and in the USAF webpage
The GAO (which is usually critical of military spending and comes up with weird numbers) doesn’t say if that 361 price includes R&D. Also, the WP is a very liberal paper and lokes to take pot shots at anything military.
I’m not saying they lie, just if given the chance and choice, they’ll use the higher figure.
The F-22 faces several problems despite is the best fighter in the world in over all terms
First problem is High price of the first block built in the range of USD $360- USD $338 million dollars later blocks promise a lower price of USD $150-USD $130 Million dollars a piece even less very likely export models can be gotten by around USD $130 million dollars a piece .
Second problem is of the export perpective customers mentioned two face Su-27 derivatives as regional threats. Japan for example regularly intercepts Su-27s near the japanese home waters, the japanese aircraft are aging fast, soon the F-15J won`t be top fighters however i guess the F-35 would be more affordable and therefore they can get more numbers.
In the Japanese neighbourghood there are two air force that are first class one is the PLAAFhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IUbxXlimTg&search=airforce that has excellent aircraft among them JH-7s and Su-30MKK and also you have to count the Russian air force which has excellent aircraft and powerful nuclear forces to anihilate http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gtg2cM7ROw&search=Military and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaiHJABqKZs&search=military watch the videos and you will see their power and numbers.
the PLAAF has a great number of aircraft so few F-22 i do not think are going to be enough deterrence, the Japanese need i my opinion F-35s because also they face large numbers and their budget is year by year more presured by the retireers.
This Sukhoi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHbj_wC6r3k&search=sukhoi is the main reason Japan or Australia could get F-22 considering also the Russians are developing a stealth fighter of the fifth generation here is a video of some JASDF aircraft http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c8ojb7CFgE&search=Airforce and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRlqF-syzpc&search=jasdf
you have allready been warned about taking a thred it into the Raptor’s cost etc and you still dont budge . I would recomend staying away from it and let us all believe the propoganda we want to believe while you continue to believe the truth.
Regarding the technical capabilities of the export version only time will tell. Someone who needs the F-22A cannot really substitute (capability wise) it with a F-35A however if the F-35 maintains its promise and required feature of economy what that customer can do is buy twice as many F-35’s and make tradeoffs in capability for economy.
BTW the export price would not be Fly-Away unless the USAF decides to subsidise the price inorder to maintain the line and keep it hot. Secondly they may also want some R and D out as compensation.
Please Bring_It_on
I am not breaking any forum rule by just saying my opinion, please quote me a forum rule where it says a person can not say his opinion about a topic.
Second the Washington post where this thread was based as topic quoted that price and said what i am saying.
Read the original articlehttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/30/AR2006063001695.html here is the second part of the same articlehttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/30/AR2006063001695_2.html
See
-“The company has delivered 74 Raptors so far at a cost of $361 million each. The cost is about three times the original estimate, according to the Government Accountability Office. The planes are scheduled to be put into combat service early next year, following years of fine-tuning and training.”-
and later they claimed the following:
-“Lockheed and the Air Force see a potential market among the United States’ closest allies, including Japan, Australia and Britain, according to industry insiders and analysts. For example, Japan is expected to begin replacing soon its fleet of about 100 F-4s. Excluding development costs that the Pentagon paid early in the program, the price of the plane drops to between $150 million and $183 million, or even less for a stripped-down model, they said.”-
See this is written in the original Washington Post article, so i am not out of topic niether i have broken any Forum rule by expressing my opinion.
The problem is that the Raptor only delivers total air dominance where you can afford enough of them – 20-30 Raptors will not totally secure against 100 Rafales or Flankers. It is the age old issue of quality v. quantity – too far one way or the other, and you will not win. If given the choice between 60 Rafale/Typhoon or 20 Raptors, I would choose the former, but if given the choice between 800 Rafales/Typhoons, or 200 Raptors and 200 Rafale/Typhoons then I might be more tempted to choose the latter.
I think the F-22 export price will be around USD $ 100 million dollars, currently the F-22 has a price of USD $338 million dollars a piece for the US tax payer, but after the aircraft 183 the F-22 theoretically will cheapen to half of that price, but i guess the F-22 export variant will be less advanced, but i wonder who will want a F-22 that is as capable as the F-35 but with a higher price tag?
I realized that before but it does not change the fact that building 500+ bombers is a pretty crazy idea..
Any weapon is a crazy idea if we are honest, killing people is acknowledged as a crime in any normal society, nevertheless as a “defensive weapon” i do not think the Tu-22M was a crazy idea and building 500 was not too complex, the Tu-22M is basicly an enlarged Su-24 with a relatively simple configuration.
It is not huge, has a fighter configuration looks quit similar to the MiG-23, Su-24 and MiG-25, contrary to the Tu-160 or B-1B has only 2 engines and a relatively small bomb bay.
The B-1B and Tu-160 used podded engines to allow the aircraft to carry lots of fuel, the Tu-22M did not, even the Tu-22 Blider carried podded engines.
A Tu-22M is just 15 meters longer than a Su-24 but carries up to 24 tonnes of weapons, having only two engines of high thrust endowed the Tu-22M with a fighter type fuselage unlike the Tu-16 which is not a high performance aircraft.
A Tu-22M is just 60% larger than a Su-24 but a Tu-160 is close to 120% larger than a Su-24 to put it in simple terms.
However it is almost as big as a B-1B but it only has two engines powering it and weights fully loaded a half of what a B-1B weights at full combat weight 😉 , therefore podded engines were not demanded, four engines demand more complex fuselages like the T-4, B-70, B-1B, B-58 or Tu-160
The fact it is powered by just two engines and is a high speed aircraft demanded a highly streamline configuration without the need of podded engines like in the Tu-160 and B-1B and like the Mirage IV a fighter like fuselage was borrowed from aircraft like the MiG-23 and Su-24. any way the dammed aircraft is plain beautiful

Source of the pictureshttp://www.testpilot.ru/russia/tupolev/145/145.htm
PLAAF at`s it besthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IUbxXlimTg&search=airforce
Mirage III Swiss a great videohttp://video.aviacia.ru/Mirage/MIII.wmv
Bring_it_on
First of all i clarify i am only speculating, Japan i doubt will just buy the F-22, the Japanese usually license build US fighters that was true for the F-104, F-4, F-15 and even the F-16 AKA F-2.
The Japanese got a very expensive F-16(F-2) that costs several times more than a US built one, also Japan has a declinig population and a growing debt, the japanese are aging too fast and require more money for their retirees.
In few words i doubt for the Japanese the F-22 will be attractive in terms of price
Mig-23 the ban would most likely be lifted as the senate has always been in favour of things like this. The problem for export customers (potential) isnt the ban but the quality of hardware and software in the export raptors.
* to what level would the stealth be degraded
* To what level would the avionics and software be degraded
The point i am saying even if it is ever lifted at this momentit has not become a reality it was just recommended to lift the ban and it is not yet official, at this moment only has been recommended, even if the odds of been lifted are high still is not a fact
If it is lifted well only Israel could be the next buyer, England already has the F-35 i doubt a down graded F-22 will be more attractive than the F-35
Washington – The US House of Representatives has recommended lifting a nine-year ban on international sales of the F-22 Raptor, its most advanced fighter made by the same firm that manufactures F-16s proposed to be sold to Pakistan.
But instead of putting the plane in the general shopping window, Lockheed Martin is eyeing US allies like Australia, Britain and Japan as potential buyers for the expensive plane.
The House voted to lift the ban after an 11-minute debate on June 20, Washington Post reported.
The report does not say they already lifted the ban simply they have recomended to do it and they will vote to do it soon so the F-22 can be sold abroad
here is the linkhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/30/AR2006063001695.html
this weird looking beast got the Boot not long after she flown for the first time… 😀 😀 😀
The 1950s gave birth to really odd designs either in the West or in Russia.
The Anakonda is one of those designs

The La-250 was extremely beautiful for those crazy days but i consider this a odd design due to it`s swollen nose


Source of the pictures:
http://airwar.ru/enc/fighter/la250.html
The Yak-25 the Flying cigar

It`s a kind of weird design because combines a straight wing with swept tailplanes

Source of the pictures:
http://airwar.ru/enc/fighter/yak25_1.html
Some attached pictures of the An-2Fhttp://airwar.ru/enc/spy/an2f.html and the An-6 http://airwar.ru/enc/spy/an6.html
For those who like the sea monster
Some cool PLAAf videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Iwobi8spzo&search=Military here you can see the JH-7
and here some J-8II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a8uDy5aatw&search=PLA
Here is one of the JH-7A
Another latin american buyer of Su-27s, yes the Mexican Su-27.
I just found a pic of an M2 earlier and here is the link. The airframe doesn’t look to be in great shape but at least, it gives us a good idea of what the aircraft looked like during better days.
Nice picture, you know shadow, since my childhood i have liked the Tu-22M specially the Tu-22M2 Backfire B, that is one i think one of the very early examples because it has even refuelling probe, i like the Tu-22M because it is so nice looking and perhaps the only aircraft that can destroy an aircraft carrier by it`s own beside the B-1B and the Tu-160, it is a really powerful machine, it`s like a super F-111 with esteroids, a real super Su-24.
I guess that is why it has not been exported, it is an awesome weapon
Picture Source :http://www.testpilot.ru/russia/tupolev/145/03/tu22m3.htm

Source of the picture http://www.monino.ru/index.sema?a=pages&id=18
This is one of the less than 8 MiG-23MF/ML that remain in cuban service, If anybody like to know why I say this is because number don’t lie.
MiG-23ML serial 241 at San Antonio
And here is one of the very few MiG-21BIS that remain active, less than 4.
Luis
Luisdo
That MiG-23 picture is a total beauty, one of the best MiG-23 pictures i`ve ever seen 😮