0/10. :rolleyes:
I do not deny Russia still has more expertise in submarines than brazil no one denies that, however you are worshiping weapons, life in russia is hard specially if you are a man, men hardly get 56 Years of age.
having a Submarine does not make a nation better, Russia might have the technology but all empires fall, no empire is for ever, the Soviet Union fell and if you remember the numbers of submarines the Soviet Union operated during the cold war you will know Russia operates now a token number of those submarines.
The only reason for brazil it is good to have nuclear submarines is basicly it allows to have knowledge up to some level and some weaponry to defend it self.
Russia is in a difficult situation, it is either poverty or weapons
Russia can have submarines but do men have better standards of living?
Same is in Brazil, people can not eat Uranium, in one way that is the reason in latin america our budgets are smaller, Brazil spends much less in weaponry than Russia
Civillian nuclear reactor does not led to modern SSN. there plenty of example countries making civillian reactors but not manageing even a decent diesel sub.
Russisa is not interested in selling stuff to West based on Western science It isnt a cheap factory. thats why they are developing Tu-204SM, Tu-334, MS-21. Along with previous models. Russians are direct supplier of science to West so whats the point of assembling.
It is the Western companies in Russia that are building export base taking advantage of Geopgraphical location of Eurasian continent along with natural resoruces and scientific expertize. Russia does not need to create its own brands in consumer stuff as the rest of world is eager to supply. it is simply too rich.
There is big difference in making money.
Sukhoi does not need to be that big like Boeing consuming all its energies servicing client requests for maintainance/support throught out the world.
it has to serve Russian airforce along with maintaining strategic independence for air transportation.when u are too much globalized (dependency) it decrease ur ability to act independently.
ur constantly relating Civillian nuclear reactor to SSN & Embarer to Airplane industry. i have serous doubts not only about this SSN interms of technical terms about money/project management.
man read more about Sukhoi and what are Russia`s needs, in my familiy we have russians and they live in latin america because the situation in Russia is so bad, they think Latin america is better than Russia.
Brazil is developing a nuclear reactor for a submarine and they have already developed one with the basic features they want, it is called the IPEN/MB-01, it is a research reactor true but is the basic system for a nuclear submarine and was made by Brazilian scientists
Este pequeno reator de pesquisas, denominado IPEN/MB-01, foi totalmente projetado e construído por brasileiros, sendo um grande feito da engenharia nacional à época.
http://www.defesanet.com.br/marinha/nuclear_sub.htm
http://www.ipen.br/sitio/?idm=248
A filosofia que norteou o projeto do reator IPEN/MB-01, foi no sentido de se projetar e testar um núcleo típico para uso em propulsão naval
It says the philosophy behind the nuclear reactor IPEN/MB-01 was to research a typical nuclear reactor for naval use (submarines or Ships)
It is better to make money and sell more aircraft than simply have the design capability but no market like happens with Tupolev and Illyushin, true they will recover and in fact Russia and Brazil understand they need each other, why? simply because Russia and Brazil are emerging nations that understand they need to develop their economic and technological ties, in fact Russia is helping Brazil for example the E-170 series was tested in Russia, its aerodynamics were refined in Russia, in fact the Superjet and E-170 are so similar because they have a common aerodynamic Russian design, nobody denies that however it does not mean Embraer is not sucessful it is a very sucessful company and the fourth largets maker of civilian aircraft in the world
Among the features that a new nuclear submarine needs and is the core of its propulsion system is the nuclear reactor, here we see part the construction of the small nuclear reactor build by the brazilian navy.
The Navy’s Technological Center in São Paulo (CTMSP) has successfully concluded in 2005 the final assembly of the pressure vessel and the internals of the Laboratory of Energy Generation’s Reactor (LABGENE). This structure together with the fuel elements and the control rods drive mechanisms are part of a PWR type Nuclear Reactor
Nuclear-Electric Generation Laboratory – LABGENE
The Brazilian Navy is constructing in the ARAMAR Experimental Center, located 120 km away from São Paulo, a prototype nuclear installation for generating electricity based on a pressurized water reactor (PWR) of low power.
This installation aims at obtaining the national technological capacity that will permit to develop in the country in the next decades nuclear plants of low and medium power and installation for naval propulsion that satisfy the national defense strategic needs.
The Nucleoelectric Laboratory (LABGENE) was designed with the purpose of validating new concepts and devices that will improve the performance and safety of the nucleoelectric generation and will be a powerful tool for R&D activities relating to fuels and systems that will give support to the development of commercial and naval applications.
An extensive experimental program was carried out for validating the neutronic parameters of the reactor core project. This program is being implemented in a critical unit specially built for this purpose that started its operation in 1988. This small research reactor, denominated IPEN/MB-01, was entirely designed by Brazilians and was a remarkable feat of the national engineering at the time.
The main components of the primary circuit, namely the reactor vessel (see figure above) and its internals, pressurizer, cooling pump, steam generators and associated ancillary equipment have been concluded. The reactor vessel and its internals have recently been successfully assembled in order to verify adjustments and tolerance.
The main cooling pumps will be subject to performance tests in an experimental device specially designed for this purpose. This device is connected to the Experimental Thermo-hydraulic Circuit with 150 atmospheres (CTE-150), originally designed and previously used for validating the parameters adopted by the project regarding the primary and secondary circuits of the installation. The project’s parameters and operational performance measurements of the control rods drives mechanisms were also validated in a testing bench specially built for this purpose. Other experimental testing benches were used for validating the hydro-dynamic parameters and the steam driers. Mock-ups of the reactor and of the equipment for fuel exchange in natural scale were also constructed for validating the corresponding operational procedures. These experimental testing benches and circuits constitute the multi-purpose thermodynamic laboratory (LABTERMO).
The main components of the secondary circuit are also concluded, including four turbo-generators, two main condensers that constitute a single unit, four condensate extraction pumps and four water feeding pumps. The turbo-generators are being tested regarding performance according to military rules (MIL-STD) in another laboratory, namely the Laboratory for Testing Propulsion Equipment (LATEP), specially built for that purpose.
Software that simulates the dynamic behavior of the complete installation, including navigation effects, will be in operation at the end of 2005. This simulator will permit the verification of the measurements concerning the integrated performance of the installation (primary and secondary circuits and electric system) and the development of technical specifications and procedures necessary for a safe operation.
The civil works at the site have been interrupted. The foundations of the Reactor Building and the Turbine Building (see photos above) are concluded. The contracts for continuing these works and for the fabrication and construction of the Nuclear Containment are ready to be signed and they are solely awaiting the availability of financial resources.
From 1980 until the end of 2004 about US$ 318 million have been invested in LABGENE relative to research, development, acquisition and construction and that corresponds to about 65% of its total value.
It is estimated that US 170 million will be necessary to conclude the LABGENE. Depending on the effective chronogram of allocated resources in the next years, the first reactor criticality could technically be reached in 2010.
The Conclusion of the Fabrication and Assembly of the
Internals and the Pressure Vessel of the LABGENE Reactor
The CTMSP has successfully concluded on July 27 the final assembly of the Internals and Pressure Vessel of the LABGENE Reactor
Pressure Vessel and Internals of the LABGENE Reactor.
The successful conclusion of the design, fabrication and assembly of this structure that together with the fuel elements and the control rods drives mechanisms will constitute a complete PWR type Nuclear Reactor, is a unique event in the Southern Hemisphere and it should be a source of great pride for the Brazilian Navy as well as for all Brazilians who believe in the competence of the country regarding the indigenous development of complex technologies.
LABGENE is an undertaking that is being developed under the responsibility of the Brazilian Navy and aims at developing the Brazilian capacity regarding nuclear electric generation which will make it possible to build small nuclear power plants and nuclear naval propulsion systems.
The conclusion of this structure highlights the CTMSP engineering capacity and that of Brazil regarding the design development and practical experience acquired in the fabrication of equipment and this will generate know-how that is unique, innovative and valuable.
The conclusion of this structure highlights the CTMSP engineering capacity and that of Brazil regarding the design development and practical experience acquired in the fabrication of equipment and this will generate know-how that is unique, innovative and valuable.
Complete LABGENE Reactor.
From now on the equipment will be stored in their container and will be kept in an inert atmosphere until the final assembly in the Rector Building.
The development of science and technology, for which creativity and innovation must necessarily be present, is based on three fundamental premises: the first one is the human brain and the incentive to its potentiality; the second one is to congregate people and institutions around objectives, aims and targets that generate some strategic or social benefits; the third one refers to the national efforts, supplying adequate resources to the science and technology area.
This noteworthy milestone, a result of the fortunate combination of these three premises undoubtedly demonstrates its power. One must persist in keeping these premises.
(*) Leonam dos Santos Guimarães is presently Assistant Manager of the Director-President of Eletronuclear and was Coordinator of the Nuclear Propulsion Program of the CTMSP
can u supply this car to BMW/VW to sell it under there own brand name. the answer is no. Boeing/IBM are both direct customers and collaoborators of Russian IT.
The Volkswagen Brasilia, was a car made in Brazil between 1973 and 1982. Its market place was occupied by the Volkswagen Golf.
The Brasilia (named after Brazil’s capital city) looked like a three-door version of Volkswagen 412 Station Wagon, but was in fact based on Volkswagen Beetle. It was developed by Volkswagen do Brasil, which had at the time a unique and somewhat exotic line of cars, which spawned such rarities as the SP2. The Brasilia was equipped with the Volkswagen air cooled engine.
The front of the car was the same as the German 412, and the back resembled a scaled down Brazilian Variant. It was also the first Brazilian hatchback with five doors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Brasilia
Obviously making a car is far more simple than building a Submarine, specailly a nuclear submarine, however in Latin america Argentina now is capable of designing domestic nuclear reactors that is quit important and the first step for building the Submarine.
Brazil has also built submarines underlicense too
O primeiro deles foi produzido na Alemanha pelo Estaleiro Alemão Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW – pdf) e comissionado em 1989. Os outros 3 foram totalmente construídos no Arsenal de Marinha do Rio de Janeiro (AMRJ), o qual obteve absoluto sucesso na empreitada, formando ainda excelente mão-de-obra especializada para a produção e gerenciamento de seu programa de constru
Here it says that first IKL-209-1400 Submarine Tupi class was built in the German Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft shipyard and was comissioned in 1989, the remaining three were built in Brazil in Arsenal de Marinha do Rio de Janeiro and it is considered a total success in terms of manufacturing
Na segunda fase do processo como construtor, tendo desenvolvido capacidades próprias, o Brasil iniciou em 1991 no AMRJ a construção de um outro submarino ainda de uso no litoral, o S-34 SB TIKUNA (2 3), um Tupi aperfeiçoado no País (IKL-209-1500), que foi comissionado em 16 de dezembro de 2005.
it also says that in the second stage of submarine building in Brazil, the S-34 SB TIKUNA was a locally modified IKL-209-1500 and it was comissioned as the tikuna in 2005
But a lot better than Brazil.
Nearly 34000 murders in 2007. Brazil recorded 46000 murders.
I would like to get to the 60 at least in a country that provides me a chance to have a decent education. In Cuba maybe I can find education but I don´t to live under Raul´s regime.
Again social B.S..
Because it has a much more advanced industry supported by a very well educated people something Brazil haven´t.
I see only an airplane assembled in Brazil with british engines, japanese wings, french and american avionics, german landing gear, using hydraulic oil and engine oil and tires for US simply because Brazil lacks capabilities to manufacture those things. If you pick the Sukhoi Superjet you won´t see such number of foreing made parts.
I see the russian working with IBM. I´m sorry but quality is something that really lacks in Brazil.
Which is famous for assembly Nokia´s cell phones under license. I meant it was famous since Nokia walk out the deal because of Gradiente´s low quality standards.
Wrong. It isn´t a manufacturer, it only assembles cell phones with parts imported from China, Malaysia, Taiwan, Japan, US every place except from Brazil.
Oh my god. Mexico in the other corner of the world:cool: . Mexico by the current transportation standards near of Brazil and Mexico has several commercial agreements with Brazil that allows almost a free trade between the two countries and that´s why several car makers in Brazil are importing cars assembled im Mexico, Honda did that with last generation of the Accord model the current model is being imported from Japan and it is much more expensive because it is made by true japaneses.
Your critics are up to some point correct, no one denies that Brazil to make a Nuclear submarine needs more expertise however i do not agree with all your statements because Brazil is follwing a very smart policy with Embraer.
True the Embraer jets are not completly designed in Brazil however they are sold more than the Tu-204, Tu-334, Il-96 and very likely they won`t loose too much market against the Superjet 100, why? simply because as in the case of the Boeing 777 in Japan, the E-170 family also benefits the national economies of Japan, Germany, France and the US, see in fact the E-170 is well sold in Europe and even in Canada Home of Bombardier
http://www.revistafatorbrasil.com.br/ver_noticia.php?not=24962
http://www.val-s.com/v4p.htm
Russia can not do that. unless it starts increasing the content of western equipment in their aircraft, why? simply because the Western countries use protectionist standards to fight other competitors, you need to have some western elements to be sold well in the West.
True Brazil is uncapable of designing many parts domestically even despite some parts of the manufacturing process has been taken to Brazil, but who cares? if you are making money.
Embraer sells more than Tupolev and Sukhoi and makes more money, in fact Embraer is one of the largest companies in the world.
In a globalized world you need to think global, not regional.
It applies to any industry, why Argentina never developed a great aircraft industry? well it was because they always wanted national pride instead of practical affordable goods, and for that reason their programs never got beyond low production numbers domestic programs who is buying the IA-63? the Pucara was well sold but very simple, in latin america we need to globalize and Embraer is a good pattern of globalization.
Same is the AMX, true Brazil has very little share in the program but at least the aircraft gave some expertise and was more successful than any other military jet program ever carried by any latin american nation.
Now Argentina has designed a commercial Nuclear reactor, Brazil wants to share the commercail aspects of this new reactor and wants to create an electric generating nuclear plant in partnership with Argentina, this is the first step to make a nuclear submarine first you have to make money later you can do military programs, this was also a good example of the ERJ-145, first make it a commercial success later you make it an AWACS
The US and NASA also is full of latin scientists and researchers, this does not mean that if in latin america we take tech transfer like Gradiente does we are doing something wrong, no we need to take tech transfers later we can build our own designs.
Brazil has fail building the nuclear submarine up to now that is true, however it is alo because past governments did not consider it a key program, now at least both governments know if they do not make the submarines at least they will exploit the local nuclear knowledge for civil programs and will benefit the population of Mercosur, and this is good.
So u think Russia desperetly wants to Join EU? Russia only wants to squeeze EU not to Join them. Russia Technological power & Wealth is in whole different league than entire latin America/EU. they can pretty walkway from contracts and still get rich. Brazil auto growth is even lower than China/India which are dirt poor compare to Russia and here we are considering total wealth.
Brazil also has car industry and is growing fast too
Obvio a brazilian designed and made car
Lobini a brazilian designed car
That´s true but at least they are growing in quality.
That´s also true that´s why they have several agreements with western car manufactures. Intel also has hundred of russian designers working for it. I believe that Boeing has a design office in Moscow. Western companies are make good use of the russian brain.
Not entire true as the case of Brazil. Russia sell industrial equipment, it has a good shipyard industry. Russia´s industrial participation on the economy is 39,1% more than Brazil which is 30,8%.
Lets take a look on the industries of both countries:
Brazil: Textiles, shoes, chemicals, cement, lumber, iron ore, tin, steel, aircraft, motor vehicles and parts, other machinery and equipment.
Russia: Complete range of mining and extractive industries producing coal, oil, gas, chemicals, and metals; all forms of machine building from rolling mills to high-performance aircraft and space vehicles; defense industries including radar, missile production, and advanced electronic components, shipbuilding; road and rail transportation equipment; communications equipment; agricultural machinery, tractors, and construction equipment; electric power generating and transmitting equipment; medical and scientific instruments; consumer durables, textiles, foodstuffs, handicrafts.
Can Brazil match that? I don´t think so.
According to the World Bank, Russia will became the world´s fifth economy by 2020. It will surpass Brazil and it´s just a matter of time.
Please spare me this social B.S.. It´s better to have only one children than make a lot of them like brazilians like to do, a famosa escadinha de filhos. Poor people with no acess to education, healthcare usually have more than 5 children and this reflects the lack of basic education. Those people will never have acess to the economy, most of them will die without have working legally.
The rate of poverty in Brazil is 31% of the population in Russia is 15,8. Brazil cannot compete with Russia because it cannot put money on its educational system to produce a highly specialized labor force and cannot compete with the chinese providing cheap labor force. They don´t want to change the labor code as did the entire Europe to face China.
Russia has plent of old and retired submarines to rust in the harbors but Brazil haven´t. Remember the Tonolero.
Russia is not a paradise as you put it, in fact Russia`s living standards are far behind Argentina, Chile and Costa Rica and even bellow Mexico and Cuba.
The Murder rate is worst than in Mexico and slightly less than Colombia.
By poverty you have to define, if you are a man in russia you have less chances to get to 60 than a Cuban or Mexican to get to 77, even in brazil a man can get to the age of 71
http://hdrstats.undp.org/countries/country_fact_sheets/cty_fs_BRA.html
Russia ranked 67th while brazil ranked 70 in HDI way bellow Argentina 38th or even Mexico 52nd
poverty in Russia is a real fact, the majority of millionaires Russia has are from former state industry, a terrible oligarchy as bad as Mexico and Brazil.
The only industry that remain competitive in Russia are the weapons industry, for example where you see new Tupolevs flying in larger numbers than Embraer? where you see Russian computers competing with IBM? none in fact IBM also is opening developing centers in Guadalajara Mexico, so talent is not a Russian quality, but also a latin american one, has brazil consumers electronics industry? yes it has Gradiente
Gradiente Launches First Microsoft Windows Powered Pocket PC Phone Edition for Latin America
Gradiente is entering into a pioneering partnership with Microsoft to offer the Pocket PC Phone Edition in Brazil
S Ã O PAULO, BRAZIL, Dec. 11, 2002 — Gradiente, one of Brazil’s leading manufacturers of electronic consumer goods, has announced the launch of the Gradiente Partner, the first Microsoft Windows Powered Pocket PC Phone Edition available in Latin America. The hand-held device offers a convergence of data, voice and high-speed internet access — essential tools for people who need mobility, agility and productivity in their daily lives.
http://www.gradiente.com/site/home/index.asp
Brazil has potentiality and has talent and has industry in fact there are Gradiente products even as far as Mexico.
For Brazil building a nuclear submarine of course is harder, Russia pioneered that technology an was queen of weaponry, however do not think in latin america we lack talent we need more education true, but we are as good as Russia, in fact Mexico beated Russian and american university robots in 2006 in the Robot Olympics does it mean we can not be better yes we can be better we are no less capable than Russia
Alumnos de la Facultad de Ingeniería (FI) de la UNAM obtuvieron el primer lugar en el Robothon 2006, competencia de robots móviles que se realizó en Seattle, Washington, Estados Unidos, en la categoría de robot seguidor de línea.
Here it says Mexico took number one in the Robothon olimpycs in seattle
http://tec.fresqui.com/los-universitarios-logran-primer-lugar-en-robothon-2006
That´s not true. The russian economy today is in far better situation than it was in the 50s. In the 50s Russia was suffering from the losses of lifes of WWII. Today russian economy grows more than Brazil. It´s 8.1% against 4,9% in 2007 plus russian has a much more educated people to consolidate this growth. Russian is growing fast in quality Brazil isn´t.
That is correct however Russia has a decreasing population, few Russian brands can compete with western ones in terms of cars computers even commercial aviation, Russia also is experimenting an economy based upon selling raw materials.
Is russia lost? no! it is true Russia will grow and perhaps can catch up and even surpass Brazil for a few years, however Russia is a nation that has lost all its empire, has lost the energy it had it is graying fast it has few children, it has an oligarchy as bad as Mexico or Brazil, criminality as bad as Mexico and Brazil and men are dying younger than in Mexico and Brazil.
The Future of Russia is bleak to say the least.
Today` Russia is economically and in development in the league of Mexico and Brazil however a nation without youth is a nation dying. they have more science than us in latin america true but they have less chances of catching up at the long run, and their children also suffer proverty as the ones we have, a nation witn such features can not catch up easily, Russia is in the same condition Spain and Portugal were in the 1900 or England in the 1970s, it is an empire in decadence that needs desperately join Europe to gain part of its lost power
in fact the state of the russian submarine fleet shows that they have collapsed as a maritime power
He is right. US is the new Rome.
I don´t see where Brazil is catching up with Russia. Brazil has at least 20% of illiteracy level. Russia has 0,6% of illiteracy and this is less than the french level. Your president is illiterated an to get worst he´s proud of this situation and he said several times that education is not important despite the fact he created a pathetic program called “Universidade para Todos” (University for All) which created a large numbers of Universidades de Fundo de Quintal(Backyard Universities) which graduates a large numbers of people who barely know how to read and write.
Russia will always be able to finance its weapons programs because it has a very diferent concept of defense. The mother land is important for the russians. The russian patriotism don´t arise only in the World Cup year as it happen in Brazil.
Brazil signed at least one million agreements with other countries and none of them became real. It´s just propaganda. The only agreements which go ahead are the Cara-cu where o outro país entra com a cara e o Brazil entra com o cu. Mr. Lula did this agreement with China when it recognized China as a market economy which isn´t and this really harm several industries in Brazil.
Is he trying to won the Nobel Peace Prize??
Russia Jungle boy is in a very bad situation compared to what it was in the 1950s, economically the Russian economy is even smaller than today`s brazil`s one.
Currently the US is not like Rome in the first century the Rome of emperor Augusto, but Rome in the second century, in decadence.
the US has entered already its phase of decadence that is the reason there are new economic rivals like China, the EU, Russia and Brazil, the economic decadence of the dollar is a symptom of the times.
I am not suggesting Brazil will replace the US in the world scene, niether china or any other nation simply i am saying to you economically we are in a time in history where any nation will be able to design and make technology however we are in the time of history where international cooperation means globalized products.
Poverty exists in Many countries, however this century is the century where in latin america and in specific Brazil the technical ingenuity will become a reality because globalization means products designed and made in any economy
look Argentina can build for example agricultural machinery however it does not mean it can compete easily with Japanese brands
it requires a bit of better policies to make a product sucessful
That´s a pathetic excuse. South Korea and Taiwan are much more younger nations and are much more advanced than Brazil
That´s a big F#@$%*& lie. US can build every single piece of a plane as does Russia. US only allows that to preserve its comercial interests overseas. But if US wants they can build an all american Boeing.
It means that Mexico is going to supply spare parts and its aerospace industry is going to became much more capable than the brazilian.
Brazil cannot build 100% of a plane due lack of industrial capabilities that´s why Embraer always run to high-tech japanese, british, american, french and german suppliers.
Again lack of capabilities.
US is 100% capable to build airplanes.
Yo are correct the US can design all the airplane in the US, however commercially is not a success, the US needs the Japanese markets, so then Japan also builds part of the B-787 and Boeing 777.
Bombardeir can also build the CRJ-900 in Canada in fact they do not need to go to Mexico and do the fuselages there however they can not compete with the prices Embraer offers the E-170 family, so they go to mexico and build there the jets.
Designing is a fact any nation can do, however making a successful program comercially it is not easy.
Brazil very likely can do more design domestically but it will make more expensive certain products, that is where it is more practical what Embraer does.
can Mexico, Brazil Argentina build cars for example yes they can, there is the technology there however make a sucessful car company is not easy, Mexico built before truck and buses but competing against stablished companies is not easy.
look at this bike for example this is an early 1970s motocross made in mexico by the then Mexican company carabella, it was a good bike it was sold in latin america too however it was not a good commercial sucess at the end it failed and was sold to Vespa from Italy
The case of the nuclear submarine is similar, unless Brazil can have an economic profit in this case designing cheaper nuclear reactors with domestic technology and more energy produced will make the submarine worthed.
The designing capability is not something that Brazil has a lack of, no brazil has very good engineers and has capable people however making something economically sucessful is harder than just designing something
China did it alone. Brazil had full italian support with a lot of american help and parts to make the AMX viable. That´s way the AMX flew.
Ok. Brazil is the country of the future. I believe you guys are teling this for at least one hundred years. Brazil will never became a space power because it is not a priority of the governmet. Here´s another big problem of Brazil:
Lack of priorities.
There are going to happen only a new series of failures. That´s all. I remenber when the brazilian TV showed those launchs and I observed it only to see the rocket being blowed by ground control because it always deviated from it course. Well this is a point for Brazil, at least the self-destruction buttom works.
Brazil always want to launch rockets but this launches are always postponed by some unexplained reason.
Brazil give up its participation on ISS program because it was capable to involve in a high-tech program. Embraer was to lead Brazil´s participation in ISS program but in the end they were given the contracts to a french company very close to Dassault and the other brazilian companies involved in the program protest against this situation. At that time Dassault had very close ties and some say a very promiscuous relation.
Russian won´t transfer this kind of technology because it is forbidenn by international agreements with US.
Let me tell you one thing you may not have figure untill now. If the brazilian government is involved in something it will never become economically viable. The communication system, Embraer, Vale do Rio Doce only achievied something because the goverment cannot put its dirt hands on it.
Brazil will never have economic profit with the nuclear submarine. It will have only a big white elephant floating in a dock IF its construction go ahead which I really doubt.
Your assesment is over pessimistic even unrealistic, why? well taking apart the fact that in latin america we are still young nations and our troubles mean we are not going to become wealthy in one or two decades, the main problem is simply we are still young nations.
Your assesment is over pesimistic therefore unrealistic, you are asking brazil be 100% autonomous, that is impossible now even the US is not a nation with total technological autonomy.
Even Europe look now even Honeywell and GE design and make jet engine parts or engines in Mexico, in fact Honeywell is making and designing with mexican engineers jet engine parts for the A-350 and GE is making jet engines with parts designed in mexico by Mexican engineers for the A-380
Does it mean Mexico will become a super power? not it won`t Mexico is simply becoming another nation it is becoming a state of the NORTH AMERICAN UNION
Brazil`s case is not very different you can not build things 100% domestic now, that is the reason politicians know they need mercosur, Brazil will develop a space progam and will become a nation capable of putting satellites however it does not mean you can do everything your selves, brazil needs other nations to complete even the nuclear submarine, can South america develop high tech surely it can Brazil will lead the way and in many ways Brazil will achieve the space program.
However do not expect a nation that will be 100% self sufficient it does not happen that any more even in the US.
Embraer is working in the same way simply building globalized products to get a market
Bombardier now does the same, now they build fuselages in Mexico
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