When I red it properly it is listed unter “lebanon-losses”!
The reason is given. The pilot was Dror Gorelik with Kfir 877 from 101 Sqn.
Non does prevent you to look for further details related to that loss.

Yes it might be listed in Lebanon losses and losses according to the Israelies, but it says it was shot down by a SAM on 13 June 1982 you like it or not, Lebanon was not a peaceful mission but a combat one.

Look at the date of the article, June 18, 2004. The time when the USAF was still ‘milking’ the results of Cope India in an effort to get more funds for the F-22 program.
Yes, the USAF was surprised by the performance of the MiG-21BIS but, if you are engaged in ACM with an Su-30MK and you have a chance to disengage to engage a MiG-21…. which would you make as priority number one? Yes, the USAF was foolish and arrogant in under-estimating the Indian Air Force capabilities.
Later that year (10/04/04 AW&ST Pg. 50) the ROE’s were explained, URL;
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1237790/posts

The ROE’s revealed plus the little information that the F-15C’s in another exercise with the HMDS/”-9X” missile, APG-63(V)2 AESA radar would go to Singapore, not Cope India. (SEE NOTE) The F-15C’s in Cope India used a generic SARH (Sparrow type) missile, Sidewinder-9M missile and, AN/APG-63(V)1 (non-AESA) radar while the Su-30MK’s used Adder Missiles and the Mirage 2000 used MICA Missiles. The USAF pilots at Cope India had not practiced against the ARH missile threat.

NOTE;
We never have heard any results of the exercise in Singapore that year.

I found the second article about Cope India 2005 interesting, the first time I saw an article about the ROE’s of that exercise. Again no, “-9X” / HMDS for the F-16C’s, Link-16, BVR combat or, the latest aerial combat doctrine of the USAF. The Indian AF again wants no BVR combat, why?? Again, no mention of the usage of the ACMI, most likely they used a PC again to verify the percentage of a kill.

The quote by the Sukhoi Deputy Director, “We feel part of a game, ‘protested Mr Alexander Klementiev, Sukhoi’s deputy director-general.’ But we are not participants in that game.” He acts as though the KGB or GRU is or was not providing accurate information, what a joke!

Adrian

Adrain

My main point was according to the articles i have read and claim F-15s have been shot down in air to air combat, they mention that in 1982 the main missiles used by both warring parties were WVR missiles, among them Python 3 and R-60M

The MiG-21 Bison uses R-73 but in 1982 the MiG-21s were armed with R-60Ms.

In 1982 the F-15A was not as advanced as modern F-15s so the comparasion is more or less the same, if modern bisons can dogfight F-15s and beat them why old MiG-21s armed with R-60 can not defeat F-15A armed with AIM-9L or AIM-9M? i mean the whole idea is in mock combat it is possible then why in real life is not even when some reports suggest or state F-15s were shot down by R-60s fire by MiG-21s or R-24s fired by MiG-23MLs

В этот же день открыли боевой счет и фронтовые истребители МиГ-23МС: два самолета этого типа, пилотируемые летчиками Томи и Али, атаковали ракетами Р-13М и Р-3С группу израильских «Фантомов» и сбили один F-4E, однако при выходе из атаки сами были сбиты противником (скорее всего, вновь сработал «великолепный тандем» – F-15/Е-2С). Всего, по сирийским данным, в этот день в воздушных боях было уничтожено шесть израильских самолетов – два F-15A, два F-16A, один «Фантом» и один «Кфир», потери сирийцев при этом составили 12 машин – четыре МиГ-23МФ, два МиГ-23МС и шесть МиГ-21МФ (израильтяне объявили об уничтожении 22 самолетов противника).
10 июня бои в воздухе достигли кульминации. В этот день в ливанском небе, подернутом дымкой пожаров, сражалось до 350 самолетов обеих воюющих сторон. Сирийцы потеряли 22 истребителя (в основном, МиГ-21), потери израильской авиации составили 10 самолетов (в том числе, как минимум, три F-15A и один F-16А, также сбитых «двадцатьпервыми»). Кроме того, истребителям F-16A удалось уничтожить три вертолета Ми-8.

On the same day, and two front-line fighters MiG-23MS, piloted by Tomi and Ali, fired R-13M rockets attacked a group of Israeli F-4s and with R-3S shot down one F-4E, but the MiG-23MS were later shot down most likely F-15 aircraft supported by Hawkeyes). Over all, on the Syrian data on this day in the air battles were destroyed, six Israeli planes, two F-15A, two F-16A, a “Phantom” and one “Kfir”, the loss amounted to Syrians with 12 aircraft, four MiG-23MF Two MiG-23MS and six MiG-21MF (the Israelis announced the destruction of 22 enemy planes).
on 10 June, fighting reached a climax in the air. On this day in the Lebanese skies, haze protracted fire fighters to 350 planes of both warring parties. The Syrians have lost 22 fighter aircraft (mostly MiG-21), the loss of Israeli air amounted to 10 aircraft (including, at a minimum, three F-15A and one F-16 A, that also downed MiG-21s). In addition, the fighter jets F-16A managed to destroy three MI-8 helicopters.

source

http://airbase.ru/hangar/planes/russia/mig/mig-23/livan-1.htm

Again a lack of important details. See OKB MiG pp 398-401.
In ‘Flight’ there is a map with all recorded flights, dates and routes taken of that recce birds.
The low climb-rate of the Mirage did not allow to use that for such interceptions and Israel never procured the rocket-booster-pack.
The AIM-7F and the F-4E radar did not allow head-on intercepts. The MiG-25s had to pass over the HAWK-sites directly to allow an intercept attempt of that. There was a limited number of recce-missions and that were carefully planned. There was no time-pressure related to that. During that period the Israeli did manage to achive too firing opportunities only. One resulted in a possible AIM-7F damage, but was never claimed by Israel as such. The second time the F-4E from 107. sqn did met the MiG-25 south of Cairo on its way to Cairo-West AB. The Israeli GCI did alert the F-4 crews too late of that now easy prey. They watched in anger how that passed below at collision-course. No time was left to reverse course to chase that, because the Russian MiG-21s did scramble everywhere to protect that. Golden opportunities are limited! Just under the most favourable conditions the Israelis may have been succesfull to intercept the MiG-25s with their weaponary at hand. The Russians were aware, that the Israelis were busy to create such. But less than a handfull overflights of Israel did not allow that. At such speeds and heights a few seconds are enough to decide over success or failure. At least that MiG-25s did allow Israel to procure the F-14/F-15 from the USA. Both were evaluated by Israeli pilots in 1974. The cheaper and higher versatility F-15 was selected.

Such sentence like “.. MiG-25RB Syria carried out a number of successful reconnaissance flights over the territory of Israel and southern Lebanon..”
did proof what?!
Take a map, figure out the distances, speed, heights and related time. Oops some important details are missing to make up the own mind.
I do not question, that the Syrians may have been able to outsmart the Israeli AD with well planned missions and its fast MiGs. The distances in mind, the time is the critical factor. When something did show-up at the radar you are under time pressure. First, what will that blink or blinks show, what are the possible intentions, what is to alert and what is to send where. All that conusumes time, when fighters were scrambled or diverted. In most cases, the recce-birds will have good chances to escape the hostile AD in a well planned mission. After Belenkos defection in 1976, the MiG-25 was no longer a secret to deal with.

“The Soviet MiG-25RB Used To Conduct Aerial Surveillance Of The Territory Of Afghanistan (without loss of combat).”

That last sentence is a joke to every informed reader. Ordinary people may not be aware about such (missing!!!) detail -no AD against MiG-25RB over Afghanistan – and may be impressed by such a “success” claim. At least it may help to boost the reputation of the MiG-25 in the mind of that writers. In GDR-times it was more important to learn the details missing, when reading the Prawda/truth. In a winning system like “communismen” every setback has to have a positive counter claim to restore the confidence in that believe. To justify that questionable behavior it was claimed, that the other side did not stick to the truth either. Some basic rules given were for example. “Double your claims and half your losses”. That behavior did not change from Stalin times. Even highest ranking military stick to that to secure own political survival. Without the knowledge about the Stalin-time, non will understand Russian or related thinking really.
The next rule teached by polit-officers was, at least some part of every story has to be correct to stick on. You are allowed to do all to boost that proven part to rise the credibility, when you do avoid to speak about the wrong or missing part. To distract from that, you try to force the other side to deliver that. When the other side was able to do so, you change the topic to distract from that.

All that people do the Russians no favour to stick to such “truth”.
Non do claim that the Russian fighters were bad ones. But ignoring the limitations and use that in a wrong way did led to disaster more than once.
Deny that disaster and blame the other side of similar bad behavior may give a better personal feeling, but it will change nothing really. It is just a question of time, when the truth about that will surface.

After 2003 none will prevent former Iraqi pilots to speak or write about their former combat experiences and related details. They are not in need to expose their real identity, when presenting that to foreign writers/publishers. It seems, that there is not a lot around to speak off.

Sens

The F-15 contrary to the F-18 has an enviable combat record, Russian sources do acknowledge it, contrary to the F-16, the Russians say the F-15 was portraited as it was, a real air superiority fighter.

The question about the reliability of sources is simply because while you keep faith in one set group of sources, i do not consider the russian sources as unreliable as you do.

In general the russians have excellent fighters, was the MiG-29 better than the F-15 well the reality is yes in aerodynamics, equal in weaponry, better in price but it was never a fighter that was upgraded on time.

The MiG-29 has better agility, better rate of climb and had better air to air dogfight weapons from 1983 to 1995, it was always on par in BVR weapons and up to a degree in radar technology but its upgrades never were carried out as promptly as the F-15`s

The F-15 has been one of the best aircraft of the XX century, however it has been a fighter in part surrounded by Myths, while the Russians do acknowledged the F-15 did indeed shot down MiG-25s, the west has never acknowledged any F-15 lost to MiG-25s

It has been in part an exageration to claim the F-15 was better than the MiG-25, it is true the MiG-25 had less radar range detection, but its weapons were of almost the same range 72 km for the latest modification of AA-6 Acrid (R-40RD) and the MiG-25 enjoyed a good advantage in speed and supersonic crusing speed. Note that even the AIM-120A/B variants were not exactly of a range that could overwhelm the AA-6 Acrid of course Russia retired the MiG-25 in favour of the MiG-31

For the American F-15 was not easy to shot down MiG-25s, they did it according to western data, some russian sources support those claims however they also point out how difficult to catch it was.

Actually, there are many pictures plus video. The slaughter over the Bekaa Valley was covered by the Lebanese mass media with video and photos. There were many people interviewed who saw the wreckages as it fell.

Many times it is historians who go back and check not only the incidents but also whether the maintenance records. If a plane is thought to have been shot down and suddenly the maintenance records cease after that date, that is a damn good indications the report of the plane being shot down is valid.

Two MiG-25’s were shown to have been shot down on gun camera on one of the earlier versions of the Aviation Week video, “Hot Flying.”

The MiG-29 has always been playing “catch-up” compared to its Western counter-parts. It was granted “full operational status” in 1985 while the F-15A became operational in November of 1974, the F-16A in January of 1979 and, the F/A-18A in May of 1980 (carrier operations). The MiG-29 started the same time the F-16 and F/A-18 programs started but, the MiG-29 took far longer, due to designing problems. Not as severe as the Su-27.

The MiG-29/RAM-L was known about long before its first flight. In early 1984, Air Force Magazine, AW&ST, and Jane’s published retouched copies of the earlier satellite photo’s of both the Su-27 (RAM-K) and the MiG-29 (RAM-L).

The MiG-29 did not have AWACS but they did have GCI. They did not have R-77’s but, most all MiG-29 were shot down by F-15’s were with Sparrow Missiles, the counter-part to the Alamo which was available to the MiG-29. The F-15 has nine kills against MiG-29’s four with Slammers and five with Sparrow Missiles. This is as of the year 2000.

I first read about it over in the “Air-Launched Weapons” section of ACIG, about three years ago. The posting stated the missiles could not be launched when closure speed was high. I was not able to find any additional information so, I checked all the dogfights between the American aircraft and Soviet designed aircraft from the mid-1980’s to 2000, recordings, transcripts, MP3 files, etc. In all cases, the US aircraft work to charge head-on and kill the Soviet designed aircraft before the merge. In all the cases since the mid-1980’s, none of the Soviet designed aircraft fire a missile prior to the merge which is where they died, never getting to the merge. It doesn’t matter whether it was an F-15’s versus a MiG-29’s, F-16’s versus the MiG-29, the F-16 versus the MiG-25 or, F/A-18’s versus MiG-21’s. It all plays out the same way, the US aircraft charges head-on and fires missiles and kill before the merge and no missile is fired Soviet designed aircraft. As though they are waiting until after the merge to start combat.

This was same situation the MiG-21’s of North Viet Nam operated under. Part of the MiG-29’s failures comes from inept Serbian GCI. Against the Su-27, the MiG-29 faired no better than against the F-15.

I would suggest you inform Janes Book of Aircraft, their annuals of 1988 and 1990 have incorrect information. These numbers are directly from their books! I do have (but would have to search for) the production listing of the F-15’s from the Janes Annual. It list how many aircraft in what blocks, what years and which air forces received what models. I can look through my photostatic copies of Janes materials should you want greater detail.
The USAF had #1,247 F-16’s in the USA by 12/87 plus what F-16’s NATO countries had.
The US Navy had #557 F-14A’s by 12/89. Plus F-14B’s
The US Navy had #243 F/A-18C’s and #81 F/A-18D’s plus additional F/A-18A’s and F/A-18B’s.

If you have a more authoritative source than Janes Annuals, I would like to hear about it?

Adrian

Adrain if you read what i said, the Russians do acknowledge Iraqi MiG-25 were shot down by the Iranians they say these were MiG-25R
however i have not seen those fotos you affirm exist

i hope this is not the video you claim shows scenes of MiG-25s being shot down

До конца 1980 года только четыре иракских летчика смогли освоить новый тип истребителя, а остальные машины по прежнему пилотировали советские инструкторы. Такое положение сохранялось по крайней мере до 1982 года, когда западные аналитики отметили резкое увеличение количества вылетов МиГ-25. Однако боевой дебют оказался неудачным – пилоты иранских F-14 в 1982 году сбили по крайней мере четыре таких самолета. Еще один самолет (МиГ-25ПД) был сбит совместными усилиями F-14 и F-5 в 1983 году. А в июле 1986 года в кабине МиГ-25 погиб иракский ас – Моххамед Райян. По возвращении с задания его самолет подстерегли пара F-5 и пушечным огнем сбила.

На последнем этапе было отмечено потеря нескольких МиГ-25РБ (причем в списках потерь не фигурируют ни МиГ-25ПД, ни -ПДС). С другой стороны стоит отметить, что летчики “двадцать пятых” претендуют на несколько побед, по крайней мере ими был сбит алжирский Grumman Gulfstream, по крайней мере один F-4D и самолет РЭБ (E)C-130E Khofaash.

Until the end of 1980, only four Iraqi pilots were able to learn a new type of fighter aircraft and the remaining machines still piloted by Soviet instructors. This situation prevailed until at least 1982, when Western analysts have noted a sharp increase in the number of sorties of MiG-25. But combat debut proved unsuccessful pilots-Iranian F-14 in 1982, shot down at least four such aircraft. Another aircraft (MiG-25PD) was shot down jointly by the F-14 and F-5 in 1983. And in July 1986, in the cabin of MiG-25 died the Iraqi Ace Mohhamed Rayyan. Upon the return to the air base a pair of F-5 opened gun fire and shot him down.

At the last stage, it was noted the loss of several MiG-25RB (No MiG-25PD nor-PDS are listed as lost). On the other hand is worth noting that the pilots “25th” claim to a few wins, at least they had shot down an Algerian Grumman Gulfstream, a F-4D and C-130E Khofaash

source http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/bv/mig25iraq/mig25_iraq.html

This is a not so common combat record other records only list a few MiG-25R shot down by the Iranins a no MiG-25PD

БОЕВОЕ ПРИМЕНЕНИЕ. Впервые истребители МиГ – 25П вступили в воздушный бой 13 февраля 1981 г., когда сирийскими ВВС была предпринята попытка уничтожения двух израильских разведчиков Макдоннелл-Дуглас RF-4Е “Фантом”II, нарушивших границу Ливана и вторгшихся в воздушное пространство, контролируемое сирийцами. По замыслу израильтян, “Фантомы” выполнили роль приманки для “мигов”: на их перехват был поднят сирийский МиГ-25П. Однако RF-4Е, применив средства РЭБ, со снижением ушли в сторону Израиля. В это время в бой вступили два незаметно подошедших на малой высоте израильских истребителя Макдоннелл-Дуглас F-15А. Один из них из нижней полусферы, оставаясь невидимым для летчика “мига”, осуществил пуск двух ракет АIМ-7Р “Спэрроу”, одна из которых с большой дистанции поразила МиГ-25П, попав в его левую плоскость. 29 июля 1981 г. сирийцы вновь ввели в бой МиГ-25П. Пара истребителей МиГ-21, использовавшихся в качестве приманки, “подставилась” под удар пары F-15А, которые, разомкнувшись по высоте, начали преследование сирийских самолетов. В свою очередь на израильские истребители были наведены два самолета МиГ-25ПД, при этом один из них выполнял атаку на встречном курсе, а второй – с фланга. Летчик первого “мига”, из-за срыва автоматического сопровождения, не смог выполнить пуск ракет и, в свою очередь, сам был сбит ракетой ведущего израильской пары. Летчик второго МиГ-25ПД осуществил захват цели на дальности 40 км и двум ракетами Р-40 уничтожил ведомого F-15А. Больше боевых столкновений сирийских МиГ-25 с израильскими самолетами не отмечалось.
Во время ирано-иракской войны 1980-1988 гг. МиГ-25П ВВС Ирака сбили несколько иранских боевых самолетов, не понеся боевых потерь.
В ходе боевых действий в районе Персидского залива в 1991 году МиГ-25П были одними из немногих самолетов иракских ВВС, применявшихся в ходе конфликта. 17 января 1991 г. над Персидским заливом истребителем МиГ-25П был уничтожен самолет ВМС США Макдоннелл Дуглас F/А-18 “Хорнит”. 19 января, по американским данным, истребителям ВВС США Макдоннелл-Дуглас F-15С “Игл” удалось сбить два МиГ-25П. 25 декабря 1992 г. два истребителя ВВС США Локхид F-16С, впервые применив новейшие УР АIМ-120 АМRААМ, сбили над зоной, закрытой для полетов авиации Ирака, один иракский МиГ-25. В тот же день, несколько позже, состоялся воздушный бой между иракским МиГ-25П и американским F-15E, завершившийся безрезультатно для обеих сторон.
2 января 1993 г. МиГ-25П ВВС Ирака при попытке перехвата американского высотного разведчика Локхид U-2, в свою очередь, был атакован истребителем F-15С, однако и на это раз все завершилось безрезультатно. 15 января 1999 г. вновь состоялось столкновение американской и иракской авиации. Два истребителя ВВС США F-15, патрулирующих воздушное пространство к юго-западу от Багдада, при помощи бортовых систем оповещения обнаружили, что облучаются БРЛС двух самолетов типа МиГ-25П. Выполнив оборонительный маневр, американские машины выпустили по противнику одну ракету АIМ-7М “Спэрроу” и три АIМ-120 АМRААМ, однако иракские истребители успешно уклонились от ракетного залпа и скрылись. Пуск ракет с их стороны зафиксирован не был.
Вскоре после первого воздушного боя два палубных истребителя Нортроп Грумман F-14 “Томкэт” обнаружили и атаковали ракетами АIМ-54 “Феникс” два других иракских самолета МиГ-25П, выполнявших полет к югу от Багдада. Однако на этот раз иракские летчики, выполнив маневр уклонения, скрылись от американских истребителей. По утверждению представителей ВМС США, иракские МиГ-25П, очевидно пытались заманить американские F-14 на большую высоту для того, чтобы подставить их под удар другой пары “мигов”, выходящей в атаку на малой высоте.
После распада СССР самолеты МиГ-25ПД использовались Азербайджаном в боевых действиях против Армении. При это самолеты не без успеха применяли ракеты класса “воздух-воздух” с тепловыми головками самонаведения против армянских танков, а также выполняли бомбометание (менее успешное из-за отсутствия необходимого прицельного оборудования).

WAR APPLICATION. The first time MiG-25 fighter jets entered the air battle was on February 13, 1981, when the Syrian Air Force tried to intercept two Israeli Mcdonnell-Duglas RF-4 E “Phantom II, violating the border of Lebanon and invading airspace controlled by the Syrians. It was meant for the “Phantom” to fulfill the role of baits for the “MiG-25s”, a Syrian MiG-25P was send to intercept the intruder. However, RF-4, was able to flee to Israel. At the same time two Israeli F-15s flying at low altitude remained unseen by the MiG-25s, the F-15S fired missiles AIM-7 “Sparrow”, one of which hit a MiG-25P. July 29, 1981 the Syrians re-introduced MiG-25Ps in battle. A pair of MiG-21 fighter jets used as baits, the MiG-21s were attacked by a pair of F-15A, which gain altitude and pursued the Syrian aircraft. In return for Israeli fighter planes were intercepted by two Syrian MiG-25PD, one MiG-25 attacking the F-15s on a head on course attack , and the second flanking the F-15s. The Pilot of the first MiG-25″ due to disruption of automatic radar tracking, failed to launch missiles and, in turn, was himself shot down by a missile fired by the Israeli F-15s. The second Pilot of the remaining MiG-25PD tracked and lock on a second target in the range of 40 km and two R-40 missiles destroyed an F-15A. More armed clashes Syrian MiG-25 aircraft with Israeli have not been noted.
During the Iran-Iraq War, 1980-1988 biennium. MiG-25P Iraqi air force shot down a number of Iranian combat aircraft, without any losses of their own.
During the fighting in the Persian Gulf in 1991 the MiG-25P were one of the few Iraqi air force aircraft used during the conflict. on January 17, 1991 a MiG-25P fighter aircraft destroyed an US Navy McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 “Hornet.” on 19 January, according to American data, the United States Air Force fighter jets Mcdonnell-Duglas F-15 C Eagle managed to shoot down two MiG-25Ps. on December 25, 1992, two United States Air Force fighter planes Lockheed F-16C, for the first time using the latest AIM-120 AMRAAM, shot down over an area closed to flights of Iraq, one Iraqi MiG-25. On the same day later, an air battle between Iraqi and American MiG-25P F-15E ended inconclusively for both sides without any reported victory or loss respectively
On January 2, 1993 A MiG-25P of the Iraqi Air Force while trying to intercept an American Lockheed high-altitude U-2, in turn, was attacked by F-15s , but at this time, all ended without losses for each side. January 15, 1999 took place again a clash of American and Iraqi aircraft. Two United States Air Force fighter aircraft F-15, patrolling the airspace to the southwest of Baghdad, with the help of on-board warning systems and found two MiG-25P aircraft type. After completing a defensive maneuver, the American aircraft fired one missile at the enemy an AIM-7 “Sparrow” and three AIM-120 AMRAAM, but the Iraqi fighters successfully avoided the rockets fired at them and fled. No missiles fired by the MiG-25s were recorded.
Soon after the first air battle two fighter Grumman F-14 “Tomcat” discovered and attacked with missiles AIM-54 “Phoenix” two other Iraqi MiG-25P performing a flight south of Baghdad. But this time, Iraqi pilots executed an avoiding maneuver and fled from American fighters. According to the representatives of the Navy, the Iraqi MiG-25P apparently tried to lure the American F-14 at greater heights in order to shoot them by another pair of MiGs” that were going to attack them at low altitude.
After the disintegration of the Soviet Azerbaijan aircraft MiG-25PD used in the fighting against Armenia. When it is not without success planes used surface-to-air heat with the heads of Armenian samonavedeniya against tanks, as well as the bombing (less successful because of the lack of necessary equipment of shots).
but.

source http://airbase.uka.ru/mig-25p.html

http://www.online-translator.com/url/tran_url.asp?lang=en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.waronline.org%2FIDF%2FArticles%2Flebanon-losses.htm&direction=re&template=General&cp1=NO&cp2=NO&autotranslate=on&psubmit2.x=64&psubmit2.y=13

Here are the details to read about the losses from Oleg.
The pic shows the lost Kfir from 20.11.82 and gives the reason.
The Kfir from 13.06.82 did crash-land at AB after damage over Lebanon.
Your answer does proof that you are not intrested in details really.
You do claim pictures, but you do not refrain from mixing facts at wish.

The number of losses to all reasons in June 82 were two Bell 209 Cobra, two Bell 212, one Hughes 500MD (as possible), one A-4 and one Kfir.
That is 4-5 helicopters and two fighters to all reasons.

That Kubinka MiGs were new built 29-12 similar the F-22 to 1st Fighter Wing at Langley. It took one year to declare the first sqn operational. From 1986 the first MiG-29s did face the NATO in the GDR, but that units became operational with that from 1987. In 1987 did the personal of JG-3 to prepare for the integration of the MiG-29s at home and in the SU. The practical part took part in Kubinka!!!!
From there to Lugowaja.
In spring 1988 the first MiG-29s arrived in Preschen GDR till 1989. A little late because all had received the new IFF. In May 1988 the first flights from Preschen took to the air. The task was to bring that MiGs to full combat readiness till 1990. For that year that MiGs had to take part in life-firing with all new AAMs in the SU.
During the first two years of operation that MiG-29s were restricted by OKB MiG to 7G and 162 KIAS minimum. After that it was 9 G subsonic 100 KIAS minimum permitted. The MiG had no limiter and was building high Gs very fast. So a safety consideration at first. You have to reach a given number of flight-hours on the MiG-29 and to fullfill several flight- and mission profiles before a pilot and the unit became operational or combat ready. You do keep in mind, those pilots were experienced ones mostly with several hours under their belts already. Some pilots had flown Floggers to get BVR expertise in need for the MiG-29.
From the late 80s the SU did operate a fighter comparable to the F-16, when just the pilot will make the difference and the higher work-load of the MiG-29 is no issue.

июня 1982 г. – в ходе фоторазведывательного вылета в Ливане пары самолётов «Кфир» звено было обстреляно несколькими ЗУР комплекса С-75 (SA-2) Сирии. Одна из ракет взорвалась за задним самолётом звена и началась утечка топлива из крыла самолёта. Лётчик повреждённого самолёта пошёл на вынужденную посадку на базе ВВС Рамат-Давид. При заходе на посадку самолёт потерял управление и лётчик катапультировался (сайт ВВС Израиля, История, дневник событий («Йоман ируим»), 13.06.82).
in June 1982, during foto surveilance mission over Lebanon a pair Kfir aircraft were attacked by several Syrian SAM systems S-75 (SA-2). One of the missiles exploded in the rear section of one of the airplanes and this started leaking fuel from one its wings. The damaged aircraft pilot was forced to crash land at the Air Force Base Ramat-David. When entering the landing, the aircraft lost control and the pilot ejected (Israel Air Force website, history, a diary of events ( “Yoman iruim”), 13.06.82).

So Sens for you detail does not want to say it was a victim of a SAM.

source http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/lebanon-losses.htm

The Kubinka MiG-29s were operational, and they were the begining of the large scale deliveries of course for you to claim they were test prototypes is easy to say to try to hide the fact these aircraft were operational and were the first batch of the deliveries of operational aircrat.

You do not like details for obvious reasons. The Kfir wreckage is not from June 1982. That incident is covered by the press and the pilot got POW for one day in Lebanon.
In June 1983 the delivery of first 24 MiG-29s started to 234. Gw.IAP in Kubinka. That is no ordinary unit, but tasked to bring up the MiG-29 to front-line readiness. That MiG-29s were in flying conditions similar the first series F-22s, but that had still to reach limited operational readiness related to the weapon-system.
The MiG-29-13 got more fuel load, but did loose agility by that. The N 019M radar and wiring was prepared for the R-77 to come later.

The real new and higher performance variant should have been the MiG-29M in the 90s. But it was terminated.

Fighters did operate in pairs or foursomes. Even between that, just one is the ‘shooter’ only to avoid fracticide. So the claim about superior numbers is ****!
Many Israeli shooting opportunities were foiled by too many aircraft around.
Its no longer to stick your nose into the hostile fighter and pull the trigger.

Your F-16/F-18 example is funny. No fight at all, because no spares for that.

The Russian weaponsystems were built for an own network and doctrine of operations. Till the 90s there were several armed forces in Russia operating fighters in different roles. Something like the Russian AF was limited to an auxilary force mainly. First the ground-forces, second the artillery and with it the related SAMs and third the AF.
When in the West there is a struggle between AF and ground-forces about the first. When the artillery is third, see the lack in numbers of SAM-systems compared to Russia.
China is just shifting its forces to a western style, but not shure about its own capabilities in that. So the artillery is kept as fall-back position.
To keep it short for easy understanding. It is not the weapon-system at first, which does make the difference, but the way and doctrine it is operated!
To get that capability you have to learn your shortcomings and related losses. The USA and UK did suffer painfull losses against the Japanese and Germans. They did not hide that always except a few delays for the public, because it did not help or change anything to be corrected as fast as possible.
When your political system does not allow that freedom of speech or a critical view into the own history, you are at a disadvantage by that.
Non does prevent the other AFs to behave in the same way to reap the benefits and advantages from that.

Но и при всём этом тут допущена ошибка: точно известно о потере 5 боевых самолётов («Скайхок» 06.06.82, два «Фантома» 24.07.82 и 16.10.86, два «Кфир» 13.06.82 и 20.11.83) и 3 транспортных вертолётов «Анафа» (06.06.82, 16.06.82, 21.09.85), т.е. один из транспортных вертолётов не учтён.
If you translate it says israel lost a Kfir on June 13 1982

source http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/lebanon-losses.htm

The MiG-29 from Kubinka were operational MiG-29s, these were not prototypes or test aircraft, the first MiG-29 flown in 1977 30 years ago, the MiG-29 had a very smooth development.

MiG MAPO could not build more MiG-29 simply because Russia was broke and no new MiG-29 have been built for the Russian air force since then.

Levsha, you are correct. The MiG-29A became operational in March of 1985 while the Su-27 became operational with the PVO in November of 1986 and with the V-VS in mid 1988. By January 1989 there were #450 MiG-29’s operational and #210 Su-27’s by 1990. The WP air forces were comprised of over #3,500 MiG-21’s and MiG-23’s.
Had the Cold War gone hot in 1989, there would have been the #500+ F-14A’s, #1,000+ F-15C’s, #2,500+ F-16C’s (for NATO) and, #500+ F/A-18A’s of American air forces that would provided a large percentage of NATO air forces.

The F-15’s have not met the Su-27 yet, anywhere. The only fourth generation aircraft the Su-27 has met is the MiG-29! Part of the reason the MiG-29 has a negative kill ratio, 11:38!

Over the Bekaa Valley, only one IAF fighter was shot down, an F-4 SEAD plane. The Syrian Air Force makes one claim of killing an F-15. A MiG-23 fired a missile and damaged a F-15 but, the plane in question made it back to it to a safe base -no air to air kill.

Actually, the Serbian Air Defense (JRViPVO) does not make these claims about air to air kills, those claims are made by th Russian Air Force officers! It was also the Russians who claimed the F-117 was shot down by a MiG-29. Col. Dani Zoltan on March 27, 1999, commanded the 3rd Battalion of the 250th Missile Brigade said, they used SAM-3 Goa Missile to kill the F-117. The F-117 he shot down was only 13Km (8⅛mi) away from the mobile radar site. The F-117 stealth fighter shot down on the fourth day of the air campaign.

There also was an interface problem between the Alamo Missile (AA-10) and the fire control systems of Russian design aircraft. The reason you look at all the encounters between USA and USSR fighters, the US fighters charge head-on at the USSR fighters, firing missiles and killing the Soviet designed fighters as they approach the merge. In almost all these cases, the Soviet designed aircraft never fired a missile at the head-on charging American designed aircraft. Investigate the dogfights of;
01/04/89 F-14A kills two Libyian MiG-23’s
01/18/91 F/A-18C’s kill two MiG-21’s.
12/27/92 F-16C kills an Iraqi MiG-25 (first Slammer kill)
03/24/99 F-15C kills one Serbian MiG-29
03/24/99 F-16C kills one Serbian MiG-29
03/26/99 F-15C kill anther two Serbian MiG-29’s
Etc., etc….. There are transcripts and MP3 files on the Internet of each of these dogfights (NOTE 1).

There have been many. Iranian F-4’s and F-14’s have killed MiG-25’s. F-14’s have nine confirmed kills and two unconfirmed kills. There are photographs of wreckage of MiG-25’s killed by the Iranian AF.
The Israeli AF makes no claims on MiG-25’s during the campaign over the Bekaa Valley. In other combat there are claims of MiG-25 kills.

There are only three countries that have F-15’s that have seen combat, the Israeli, the Saudi Arabia, and the US Air Forces. Only one air force has any claims against its F-15’s and that is Israel. All F-15 combat has occurred outside the border of Israel. So wreckage should be able to be found easily yet…. no F-15 wreckage has ever been found. I don’t know about where you live but, where I live aircraft wreckage falling out of the sky is news worthy. There are several TV networks that will pay big money if you have any evidence of F-15 wreckage after there has been any aerial combat in the surrounding region.

Adrian

Dogfight Files (NOTE 1):
Mike’s Dogfight Recording & Transcript Page
http://www.flight-level.com/dogfight/dirk.html

F-16 Falcon Engine Fire Persian Gulf, 1991
http://www.flight-level.com/dogfight/benji.html

First AMRAAM KILL against Foxbat E MiG.-25 -27 Dec 1992 by Capt. Gary North in one of two F-16D’s (Blk #42)
http://www.sci.fi/~fta/amraamsrc.htm

F-16 Falcon Shootdown Over Kosovo, 1999
http://www.flight-level.com/dogfight/serbia.html

Man all these stories and accounts i have read them and know them, however they are the typical western account of no pictures and claimed kills.

The confirmed kills always means they claimed confirmed but who confirmed them? basicly not the other warring side.

I have not seen Iraqi MiG-25 wreckages from the Iran iraq war, i have seen some wreckages of MiG-25 destroyed by American bombs or armenian MiG-25s from the caucaus war.

Russian sources say no MiG-25PD was ever destroyed by Iranian fighters, however some MiG-25R were destroyed i think 3, no more

By the way you are wrong Israel acknowledges more than one aircraft shot down in June 1982.

However by confirmed you have no pictures just statements and that has been mostly all the time later they say confirmed as if there were independent observers the one who have confirmed it.

In general the F-15 has been acknowledged as a great aircraft by the Russians but in terms of agility inferior to the MiG-29 and Su-27.

The statement the Kubinka MiG-29 were no operational is completly wrong the MiG-29 was part of an air regiment, in fact the 234 of Kubinka, and the first demostration of the MiG-29 was also in kubinka but 2 years earlier in 1981.

So by 1981 the Mig-29 was demostrated to the Soviet military top brass and by July 1983 there were 20 MiG-29s operational.

The question is basicly the F-15 has achieved success against the MiG-29 becasue simply it has superiority in numbers it was an upgraded version against an early 1980s MiG-29A version the one it fought, under same circumstances even the F-16 or F-18 would had no success if they would had been in the MiG-29`s situation in 1991 or 1999.

in fact if the MiG-29 started operational service in 1986 it means they displayed it in the West the same year, in 1986 the MiG-29 flew to Finland as a part of a friendly visit, it does not sound logic since the Soviet Union was a secretive nation