MiG-23MLDYou are the one who cannot use your ******* logic, if you have any.
This was in a Chinese defense show. Was Salut sitting right there when Liming made its announcement on the Taihang?
NO.
Salut and Liming signing a preparatory agreement means that Salut had nothing to do with the WS-10A in the past, because this event already took place AFTER the Taihang was officially certified in February of 2006.
What agreement? You are just making it up again, since clearly the article stated nothing like that.
This is what it actually says.
“see it once more that the beginning of the engine usually associated with some difficulties that could last for a long time.”
So WTF is Shenyang and Liming working together for a fifth generation engine?
What an idiot you are.
Liming and Salut were not simultaneously being asked by reporters. The Liming announcement and the Salut interview are actually two unrelated events. This is typical bad Russian journalism. Why would a Chinese reporter ask about the Taihang at the Salut representative. Read the text closely, the interview came after two sentences REFERING to the AL-31FN. If the reporter is asking Salut he is asking about the AL-31FN.
You just don’t have any common sense.
Here Crobato we have a solution for you conflict of interest
Вчера эти компании также подписали протокол о намерениях, в котором отмечается, что российская компания может помочь Liming в организации сборочного производства двигателей АЛ-31ФН из комплектов, поставляемых “Салютом”. Еще один проект, который может быть реализован сторонами, это “модернизация двигателей АЛ-31ФН при капитальном ремонте двигателя с увеличенной тягой в компании Liming”.
Here it says a protocol of intent has already been signed by Salyut and Limin to grant the license production of the AL-31FN in China, it stablishes the fact that Salyut can assist Limin with the assembly of AL-31FN from russian kits in China and the modernization of the Al-31FN and overhaul of the higher thrust engine by Limin in China
So far Crobato seems Limin and Salyut have not too much conflict of interest as you claim
http://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2006/11/03/112129.html
http://www.rbsys.ru/page.php?press-centre/media-about/internet/2006/11/03/1179/
MiG-23MLDYeah, Chinese also went through a period where their planes were crap. Like in the 50s and 60s. But guess what? They improved, and today, their J7s are much better than the original Russian Migs.
I’m sure that WS10a and any other future Chinese engine will be more reliable, and last longer than Russian engines. Because that is the pattern we see. Chinese are getting pretty damn good at this; Russians are still producing junk. Why do you think China wants to get away from buying Russian junk? They want to indigenize everything because they can at least control the quality by doing it in house.
I makes me laugh how you call it Russian junk, when Russia is the only Western nation besides Israel selling high tech military equipment to the PLAAF and the PLAAF is basicly based upon Russian junk as you called , any way i know the Russians are involved in many Chinese programs and you might call it Russian Junk, Crobato is in denial about the very likely Russian involvement on the WS-10 program and even claims and hopes the Limin-Salyut Joint venture never will happen, i only can say this to you, you do not accept the reality just because of pride, you are ashame to say the in aviation Russia has taught China many things, they are partners and friends and the vast majority of reports i have presented show a very different side from what TPhuang, Crobato or you want to portrait, Russia is involved in the J-11B program from the WS-10 to the airframe.
Limin and Salyut signed an agreement that will involve even design new jet engines for military and civilian use and some initial help in the WS-10 is not the most amazing thing but the fact Limin and Salyut will built newer jet engines togather
watch the picture the chinese military are happy to collaborate with Russia.
Crobato can not even make a logic reason why Salyut needs Limin to improve the AL-31FN when the engine is not new he avoids the fact the WS-10 is indeed poised to enter operational service, it is new and Salyut has more experience than Limin building engines, so Yuri Eliseev is talking about the WS-10.
Source of the picturehttp://www.salut.ru/ViewTopic.php?Id=337
MiG-23MLDCome on, everyone knows that Russian engines are less tghan reliable. Ask the Indians and Chinese of the quality of Russian Al31 engines.
If anything, China is probably superior to the Russians in reliability and quality.
Russia’s days as a major exporter to China are probably numbered.
The are so unreliable that Limin built mostly soviet copies of Russian engines under that logic the Chinese engines are also really bad😀
MiG-23MLDThe more you post, the more you indeed show you are nothing but a dishonest liar.
Here is the translation.
Okay, where is the participation on the WS-10A eh? Like I said, the Salut-Liming cooperation was in the overhaul of the AL-31F engines.
Everything in the article is talking about the FUTURE tense. Which means it has not happened, and is just HOPING.
The fact remains I caught you in a flat out lie and deliberate misrepresentation. But then the board already knows what your posting tactics tend to be.
You want to know why? Where in the fantasy land you are? The AL-31F itself never had the a spanking record of reliability and it has many issues of that with its customers. The effective overhaul period of the AL-31F is only 750 hours, less than the 1000 hours often quoted. The PLAAF now has a requirement for 1500 hours; PW and GE engines often go higher than that, 2000 to 4000 hours at least. Only very recently is Salut able to achieve a 1500 hour certification on its engines like last year, just about the same time Liming managed to meet PLAAF certification for the WS-10A.
Which itself not certified for 1500 hours till 2006.
What do you understand about CONFLICT OF INTEREST?
Why would Salut help, when NOT HELPING is more profitable when they can sell more AL-31Fs instead? Helping would get you in trouble with ROSS and the Russian general staff. Maybe you want to know but the Russians do carefully monitor their technological exchanges with China, as they need the window of opportunity to sell their products and get the most profit, and at the same time, they are not interested to help China too strong due to historic concerns.
Okay I admit, you finally got the picture. But none of that has anything to do with the Taihang. Your articles mention not a single word of it. Signing an agreement of intention in March 2006 is NOT RETROACTIVE, since Taihang got certified the month before.
And even up to now, you cannot produce a single followup article the CONFIRMs any relationship with the Taihang directly.
If you read the article there are many many areas both Salut and Liming can cooperate. Remember, Liming also has a formal partnership with GE, and Liming is also involved with a lot of other types of engines. You cannot assume based on that formal partnership—way deeper than what Liming has with Salut now—that GE is helping on the WS-10A. even if that latter engine has more connections to the West due to an alleged CFM-56 based core.
Crobato
let us see what the TASS article mentions
in fact the Yuri Eliseev said very clearly what were some of the areas where they were going to expand their collaboration
Кроме того, отметил Елисеев, планы расширения сотрудничества и продаж, связаны не только с этим двигателем. Две компании намерены сотрудничать также по созданию энергетических, мусороперерабатывающих и опреснительных установок.
He is saying the expansion of their collaboration is not restricted to the WS-10 but also the two companies will also cooperate to create energy and desalination plants. that is the first part of the project so very likely Salyut is probably working on the WS-10 project
http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=32242&cid=124
When they mention future programs you forgot to mention, they have already signed an agreement and by the end of 2007 they will consolidate the agreement, of course i know you are praying for the contract to do not be ratify so you can say no Russian involvement in the WS-10 program, the agreement has been signed and is in a preliminary state and the later phase is the creation of the JOINT VENTURE SALYUT-LIMIN and design of new jet engines both military and civilian in partnership by the Salyut-Limin venture:diablo:
of course crobato what does it mean this word in Russian
созданию? this word is translate as создание a verb it means to create, to make and it is taken from В перспективе планируется сотрудничество по созданию авиационных двигателей в области как гражданской, так и военной авиации
So as you can see your mechanical translatation was not very accurate
However the big question is why does Salyut need Limin to increase the reliability, thrust and interchangeability of the Al-31? and is the AL-31 in the begining of its initial operational capability? this prove you that your distortion of the text using a mechanical translation is only because you can not swallow a reality, Salyut and Limin talked about the russian involvement on the WS-10 and already have signed an agreement for expand their cooperation
MiG-23MLDwhy would there need a Russian webpage for this to be true? From what I can see out of some of the Russian articles posted in the past, they are not exactly what I would call accurate. But the reality is that we have around 105 J-11 built and now we are still getting new J-11 in the form of J-11B. So, what are you doubting?
you do realize that WS-10A and FM1 have about the same amount of thrust, right? And also that WS-10A improved variant with probably 155 kN of thrust has already passed the high altitude tests, so your argument doesn’t work. You can’t say that Liming and Saluyt are cooperating in military means that Saluyt is helping on WS-10 project. We don’t know what the cooperation is.
actually, I have the kanwa interview with Salyut and the engine mentioned regarding improving reliability and thrust was AL-31FN.
The question is why Salyut needs Limin in order to increase the thrust of the Al-31FN? do you want to say that the cooperation is Limin will give technical advise? it is not logic buddy, Russia has engines in the region of modern Al-41s, Russia does not need China to design a better engine now, specially when the AL-31 is not in the begining of its comission.
In fact remember they say they will expand the collaboration, so Russia already has been giving substantial amount of expertise to China in the past.
With this i have proven you that the Russian-Chinese relation are in a good state and obviously the collaboration means the Russians know about the J-11B however they do not mention China is continuing production specially when Sukhoi claims the future Flanker production is mainly for India.
they did not mention China will continue the production, they only mentioned the future Flanker production is mainly for India.
MiG-23MLDReally where? You are lying through your teeth again.
http://www.salut.ru/index.php?lang=eng
http://www.salut.ru/ViewTopic.php?Id=444
“The value of the cooperation with China for “SALUT” is difficult for overestimating. I think, we are only at the beginning of this way. Having started to cooperate in military sphere, we gradually move aside civil sector. It is important to pass from model “the seller – the buyer” to partner relations where we shall develop, make and sell production together. Our productions is power, gas-pumping, waste-utilizating, water-desalinating and ozonating units, creation of engines of following generation for civil aircraft and many other things. On these directions we can cooperate with the Peoples Republic of China through joint development and manufacture. We should supplement each other, and forms of co-operation can be the most different and always mutually advantageous.”
Funny that it talks more about civilian uses and has ignored mentioned of military uses aside from the beginning (most likely on the overhaul of AL-31Fs).
I may not know Russian but the order of the machine translation is still clear. The interview is spoken after the AL-31FN is mentioned. You cannot deny the order of the statements no matter what dictionary you bring.
If your alleged partnership on the WS-10A is true, it would have been followed up by other articles in other magazines and media throughout the world from Janes to AFM to Asia Times to AW and AN, to Kanwa, China, HK and Taiwan media. This is one way we prove an article—THERE IS A FOLLOWUP confirmation from others. The article you cite is 2006, and a year and a half later, THERE IS NO FOLLOWUP on what you suggest.
Let us see where who is the liar
В перспективе планируется сотрудничество по созданию авиационных двигателей в области как гражданской, так и военной авиации
This means in the planned collaboration for the construction of military and civil jet engines
here is the Source http://www.salut.ru/ViewTopic.php?Id=337
В:In
перспективе: perspective vision
планируется: planned
сотрудничество: Collaboration
по: on over about at
созданию: Design
авиационных:aeronautical, aircraft
двигателей:engine
в:in
области:real area, region
как:how what, as
гражданской:Civilian
так:so in this way. also in this manner
и:and
военной:military
авиации:aviation
So if you translate this means they will also pass in the area of building aircraft jet engines
Question for you Crobato why does need Salyut the help of Limin to increase the reliability and thrust of the Al-31? when they already have engines like the Al-31FM-1? is not in the other way around? it seems Limin needs Salyut to increase the Thrust and reliability of the WS-10. specially when it is begining its operational induction and operational capabity. in few words Crobato you are wrong the webpage press release of Salyut has even Pictures of Elissev and the Limin general director Qiang Wei signing the agreement source of the picture http://www.salut.ru/ViewTopic.php?Id=337
MiG-23MLDYou are the one who cannot use your ******* logic, if you have any.
This was in a Chinese defense show. Was Salut sitting right there when Liming made its announcement on the Taihang?
NO.
Salut and Liming signing a preparatory agreement means that Salut had nothing to do with the WS-10A in the past, because this event already took place AFTER the Taihang was officially certified in February of 2006.
What agreement? You are just making it up again, since clearly the article stated nothing like that.
This is what it actually says.
“see it once more that the beginning of the engine usually associated with some difficulties that could last for a long time.”
So WTF is Shenyang and Liming working together for a fifth generation engine?
What an idiot you are.
Liming and Salut were not simultaneously being asked by reporters. The Liming announcement and the Salut interview are actually two unrelated events. This is typical bad Russian journalism. Why would a Chinese reporter ask about the Taihang at the Salut representative. Read the text closely, the interview came after two sentences REFERING to the AL-31FN. If the reporter is asking Salut he is asking about the AL-31FN.
You just don’t have any common sense.
Crobato you are in another tantrum distorting a translation even without speaking russian:rolleyes: man you are simply insulting and creating things simply becaue you are afraid of the truth, if they mentioned the AL-31FN was not to say they work togather in it simply because they say Saluyt has sold 100 AL-31FN does not mean they are talking about it, they are just giving a simple explanation about Salyut, later they change the topic and talk about a question made by a Chinese journalist to Yuri Elissev about the expansion of the collaboration between Saluyt and Limin, the question was in what way Salyut and Limin are going to cooperate and increase their collaboration? Eliseev talks about an engine which is the WS-10 because the Al-31F is not in the begining of its induction or commission to the PLAAF because it is already a 30 years old engine, and because the Al-31FN already is operational in the J-10 in large numbers, he says at the begining of the comission of this engine we know it will have troubles and we are working to improve the reliability, thrust, and interchangeability, and that means the WS-10 Because they say increase the thrust and reliability and that was one of the things Salyut is interested, in fact you can not even believe Salyut`s press release when they say the collaboration will go as far as to create a joint venture and new aircraft jet engines so Eliseev states in the same Tass page electric plans and the WS-10 are the begining of the collaboration and the agreement has been signed😉
Of course you can not believe that because you do not think like a capitalist but only as a nationalist without finacial vision, Limin and Saluyt are trying to create like Europe did a joint venture for the creation of engines and make money with it but for you any collaboration hurts your feelings because for you china makes everything 100% chinese, but man wake up we are living in a globalized world international programs in aviation are normal and the chinese and russians know that.
Go to Salyut`s page and you will see them signing the agreement they have the picture;)
MiG-23MLDso what are you still arguing about then? China bought the design. If they got any help on WS-10, they paid for that too.
I can agree with you up to a level, if China is building J-11Bs with WS-10s probably is with the russian approval, however i have not fund any Russian webpage saying China continues building J-11s beyond the 105 kits delivered
MiG-23MLDHere is again the sentence to sentence translation for everyone to read.
Shenyanskaya company Limin “has completed development and testing of the engine” Tayhan “fighter for” Super-10 “Shenyanskaya company CHZHUHAY, Nov. 2. (ARMS-TASS).
Shenyanskaya company Limin “has completed development and testing of the engine” Tayhan to light fighter “Super-10”, which creates a corporation “Avik-1. As reported in the press in the Air “Eyrshou China 2006” (AirShow China in 2006) by “Limin” Qiang Wei (pictured) “We turn to produce the” Tayhan. ”
The “Super-10” equipped with engines AL-31FN (References) production MMPP Salyut. This year, the company has completed a contract to supply China with 100 such engines.
Asked Chinese journalist as a “Salute” to broaden cooperation with “Limin” General Director of Moscow said that “we are working to improve the reliability and power, and the absolute interchangeability of the engine. We know that the start of the engine, usually with some difficulty, which may last for a long time. It is possible that during a period of “Super-10” will ship engines and Limin, and the “Salute.”
In addition, Thomas said, plans for increased cooperation and trade, not only with this engine. The two companies will also cooperate to create energy, refuse and desalination plants. “
Simply at some point, the article just stops talking about the Taihang and talks about the AL-31FN from the second paragraph on. So its not referring to the Taihang anymore, but the AL-31FN. Sorry I don’t agree with you that they’re talking about the Taihang beyond the first paragraph. Chinese reporter is questioning Salut manager and I doubt he is asking about the Taihang. That will be asking the Ford manager about a Chevy. Clearly the reporter is asking about the AL-31FN.
Even though the AL-31FN is not Liming, Liming is the one that will have to be in charge of overhauling the AL-31F in China. Thus the partnership is required.
Simply said, no one works with a potential competitor to help cut their throat.
Besides if Liming actually copied the AL-31F for the WS-10A, would Salut be screaming violation of patent? If indeed Salut is providing advisement for Liming, then it suggests WS-10A isn’t violating any AL-31F IPR.
The key words are this
“absolute interchangeability”
“It is possible that during a period of “Super-10” will ship engines and Limin, and the “Salute.”
The last sentence means that for a period of time J-10 production will actually have both engines being installed. That’s large production basis. This means China is looking for a quota of J-10s that can only be fulfilled having two engine suppliers simultaneously. This is similar to the F-16’s GE/Pratt and Whitney arrangement.
Man you are really stubborn, why you do not use the logic, they are talking about the WS-10 in fact if you saw the other report Salyut and Limin already have signed an preparatory agreement for the creation of a JOINT-VENTURE, i have even presented you a dictionary word by word not a mechanical translation and even the webpage press release of Salyut with even Pictures of Elissev and the Limin general director Qiang Wei signing the agreement.
This agreement deals with even the joint creation of military engines so the degree of colllaboration between Saluyt and Limin is in a level that even the creation of a fifth generation engine for fighter aircraft is not out of the question even the creation of jet engines for big airliners because Russia and China know cooperation in this field will strengthen their economies and in that way both nations can even compete with Boeing, Airbus and the jet engine makers from the west
see it once more что начало эксплуатации двигателя обычно связано с определенными трудностями которые могут продлиться достаточно долго по времени.
this means at the begining of the Explotation or commision of this engine it will encounter some troubles that may last for a long time of course Crobato if it is at the begining of its commision and it will find some troubles of course is not an AL-31 because number one the AL-31 is not at the begining of induction or comission niether Limin works making AL-31s
I give you a dictionary so you can use it
Отвечая:reply
на:to
вопрос:Question
китайского:Chinese
журналиста:Journalist
как:what how
“Салют”:Salute name of the engine maker
планирует:Planning
расширять:increase
сотрудничество:cooperation
с:with
“Лимин”:Limin chinese engine maker
генеральный:General
директор: director
московского:moscovite natural of Moscow
предприятия:enterprise
заявил:he answers
что:this
мы:we
работаем:work
над:at, over, on
повышением:increase
надежности:reliability
и :and
тяги:thrust,
и:and
над:at overn on
абсолютной:absolute
взаимозаменяемостью:interchangebility
этого:this
двигателя:engine, power plant
Мы:we
знаем:we think
что:this
начало:begining
эксплуатации:explotation, commision
двигателя:engine
обычно:Usually
связано:tie, bound, goes
с:with
определенными:definitively
трудностями:troubles,
которые:which
могут:can, being able, might
продлиться:last
достаточно:enough
долго:long
по: on along
времени:time.
“мы работаем над повышением the director of Salyut means we are working he means Salyut and Limin because the Chinese Journalist asked about the cooperation of Saluyt with Limin if they were planing to broaden the cooperation or collaboration with Limin
что начало эксплуатации двигателя, this mean that the beginning of the operation of the engine, question Crobato is the AL-31 at the begining of the operation? this is a simple translation by altavista, begining of operation means comission and since Salyut is working with Limin it is the WS-10 because the AL-31 is not built by Limin niether the Al-31 is at the begining of commision or its initial operational capability
MiG-23MLDThis is what your articles said, under google translation.
After this translation, it appears to me you’re just a freaking dishonest liar. There is nothing there that says Salut is working with Liming on the Taihang engine. It only has the manager of Liming making a direct official announcement of the release of the Taihang engine during a Chinese air show and it makes no reference from him about Salut being involved. The involvement is added by the reporter to the general manager of Salut, and note it came after the AL-31FN is mentioned and thus it is not in reference to the Taihang. That means they are working to improve the performance and reliability of the AL-31FN, in cooperation with Liming, which may end up having to overhaul the AL-31FN in its facilities.
The text is discussing joint cooperation on the Super 10, so that some planes are powered by Salut engines, other by the Liming engines, and the interchangeability is trying to make both engines a little more compatible from the logistics standpoint.
Crobato i will be utterly honest with you they are talking about the WS-10, indeed the document does deal with collaboration of Limin and Salyut on the WS-10, indeed Salyut signed a document with Limin to increase cooperation in the area of military and civil jet engines, however it seems it is in a very early stage why? here is the answer
http://www.salut.ru/ViewTopic.php?Id=337
Liming Engine Manufacturing (Шеньян) подписали в рамках авиасалона “Эйршоу Чайна-2006” в Чжухае /Южный Китай/, протокол о расширении сотрудничества. На пресс-конференции генеральный директор ФГУП “ММПП Салют” Юрий Елисеев сообщил журналистам, что в документе рассматривается возможность создания совместного предприятия “Салют-Liming Оно может быть образовано уже к концу 2007 года. На первом этапе совместное
This means that during the Zhuhai 2006 air China airshow, Limin and Saluyt have signed an agreement to expand their collaboration and create by the end of 2007 a JOINT VENTURE NAMED SALYUT-LIMIN.
Yuri Eliseev indeed he said they were working to improve the thrust and reliability of WS-10 and make it more interchangeable with Saluyt`s Al-31 that was his answer to the chinese journalist, however it is most likely that he meant Limin and Salyut were working in a proposal rather than Salyut is currently working on the WS-10, nonetheless the agreement has been signed though and they have agreed to cooperate in the area of military and civil jet aircraft engines, however it has to be ratified by both parties to become a real joint interprise.
В перспективе планируется сотрудничество по созданию авиационных двигателей в области как гражданской, так и военной авиации here they confirm they will built and design civil and military jet engines in joint ventures.
here even they quoted even the general director of LIMIN, Qiang Wei, who said, that the Russian MMPP Salyut firm was LIMIN`s very long and important partner.
Генеральный директор Шэньянской корпорации Liming Engine Manufacturing Цян Вэй отметил, что “ФГУП ММПП “Салют” – их давний и важнейший партнер.
The agreement that Salyut and Limin have achieved is in a very early stage and despite they say they will expand their collaboration, and Salyut has trained Limin to overhaul the Al-31s, they both need to ratified the protocol and agreement
The reason why i am not sure if Limin and Salyut are currently cooperating on the WS-10 is because they will start this new venture by making civil turbines for electric generation and later they will pass to the creation and collaboration in the design and manufacture of jet engines, so the real status of Salyut`s involvement in the WS-10 is still a bit uncertain.
However do not consider they won`t cooperate or Salyut is not currently working on the WS-10 program because they have already signed an agreement and is very probable that Salyut is currently working on the WS-10 project.
in fact the Yuri Eliseev said very clearly what were some of the areas where they were going to expand their collaboration
Кроме того, отметил Елисеев, планы расширения сотрудничества и продаж, связаны не только с этим двигателем. Две компании намерены сотрудничать также по созданию энергетических, мусороперерабатывающих и опреснительных установок.
He is saying the expansion of their collaboration is not restricted to the WS-10 but also the two companies will also cooperate to create energy and desalination plants. that is the first part of the project so very likely Salyut is probably working on the WS-10 project
MiG-23MLDThis is what your articles said, under google translation.
After this translation, it appears to me you’re just a freaking dishonest liar. There is nothing there that says Salut is working with Liming on the Taihang engine. It only has the manager of Liming making a direct official announcement of the release of the Taihang engine during a Chinese air show and it makes no reference from him about Salut being involved. The involvement is added by the reporter to the general manager of Salut, and note it came after the AL-31FN is mentioned and thus it is not in reference to the Taihang. That means they are working to improve the performance and reliability of the AL-31FN, in cooperation with Liming, which may end up having to overhaul the AL-31FN in its facilities.
The text is discussing joint cooperation on the Super 10, so that some planes are powered by Salut engines, other by the Liming engines, and the interchangeability is trying to make both engines a little more compatible from the logistics standpoint.
Crobato
Let us do the translation correctly and simply and let us see what they say
Отвечая на вопрос китайского журналиста, как “Салют” планирует расширять сотрудничество с “Лимин” This means*: replying to the question of the CHINESE JOURNALIST if Salyut was planning to broaden the cooperation with Limin?
генеральный директор московского предприятия заявил, что “мы работаем над повышением надежности и тяги, и над абсолютной взаимозаменяемостью этого двигателя. THE MOSCOVITE GENERAL DIRECTOR SAYS WE ARE WORKING IN INCREASE THE RELIABILITY, THE THRUST AND THE INTERCHANBILITY OF THIS ENGINE
Big question for you is Limin working in the AL-31?
now let us see what do they mean
что начало эксплуатации двигателя обычно связано с определенными трудностями которые могут продлиться достаточно долго по времени.
this means at the begining of the Explotation or commision of this engine it will encounter some troubles that may last for a long time of course Crobato if it is at the begining of its commision and it will find some troubles of course is not an AL-31 because number one the AL-31 is not at the begining of induction or comission niether Limin works making AL-31s
I give you a dictionary so you can use it
Отвечая:reply
на:to
вопрос:Question
китайского:Chinese
журналиста:Journalist
как:what how
“Салют”:Salute name of the engine maker
планирует:Planning
расширять:increase
сотрудничество:cooperation
с:with
“Лимин”:Limin chinese engine maker
генеральный:General
директор: director
московского:moscovite natural of Moscow
предприятия:enterprise
заявил:he answers
что:this
мы:we
работаем:work
над:at, over, on
повышением:increase
надежности:reliability
и :and
тяги:thrust,
и:and
над:at overn on
абсолютной:absolute
взаимозаменяемостью:interchangebility
этого:this
двигателя:engine, power plant
Мы:we
знаем:we think
что:this
начало:begining
эксплуатации:explotation, commision
двигателя:engine
обычно:Usually
связано:tie, bound, goes
с:with
определенными:definitively
трудностями:troubles,
которые:which
могут:can, being able, might
продлиться:last
достаточно:enough
долго:long
по: on along
времени:time.
“мы работаем над повышением the director of Salyut means we are working he means Salyut and Limin because the Chinese Journalist asked about the cooperation of Saluyt with Limin if they were planing to broaden the cooperation or collaboration with Limin
что начало эксплуатации двигателя, this mean that the beginning of the operation of the engine, question Crobato is the AL-31 at the begining of the operation? this is a simple translation by altavista, begining of operation means comission and since Salyut is working with Limin it is the WS-10 because the AL-31 is not built by Limin niether the Al-31 is at the begining of commision or its initial operational capability
MiG-23MLDeven if they helped on it, how would it not be Chinese?
plaaf uses PL-12, not SD-10, do you have any evidence PL-12 uses AA-12 technology? And I’m not in the mood to open a can of worms by debating whether or not SD-10 uses AA-12 technology since there was already a humongous thread on this all thanks to you.
helping on WS-10A project does not make it Russian. Even if they did help, Russians don’t get paid for WS-10A now, that’s for sure.
the points is that China already paid for the su-27 design and now everything on J-11B is made in China.
Whatever help they got on it is irrelevant. That’s sunk cost, that’s absorbed knowledge. So, what point are you trying to make?
The Su-27 is Russian, the airframe is Russian, the Su-27 AKA J-11 is Russian, the Russians are being paid , they are paid for their services and that includes the J-11 or the WS-10;)
MiG-23MLDAccording to idiots like Flogger here, mere verbal advisement by the Russians makes the product Russian and not indigenous.
The fact that you advised, does not mean the inputs are automatically incorporated into the design. And once again, Liming will consider conflict of interest in every advisement and will thoroughly test every idea proposed.
Crobato ha speculato e ama la speculazione
The J-11 is a Su-27 that is a Russian aircraft, the Russians in fact invested many hours designing it, the J-11 is only a Chinese name for the Su-27 not a Chinese designed aircraft.
Limin and Salyut work togather in fact they have several programs in common.
The WS-10 has Russian input
read this news
LE BOURGET (France), June 19 (RIA Novosti) – Russia’s Irkut aircraft maker said Tuesday it will export 242 multi-role Su-30 Flanker fighters, worth around $7 billion, by 2014.
The Irkut Corporation [RTS:IRKT], which is part of Russia’s United Aircraft Building Corporation created in 2006, manufactures variants of the famed Su-30MK for India, Algeria, and Malaysia.
“To date, contracts have been signed for 242 aircraft with a total value of about $7 billion,” company president Oleg Demchenko said at Le Bourget international air show near Paris.
Demchenko said most of Su-30 aircraft would be delivered to India under previous and future contracts.
“We have recently added another contract for 18 aircraft in addition to the one signed earlier,” he said, adding that the company was in talks on delivery of 40 additional Su-30MKI fighters to India.
“We will sign this contract in a few weeks,” Demchenko said.
Contracts to deliver 18 Su-30MKM aircraft to Malaysia and 28 Su-30MKA fighters to Algeria are also being implemented successfully, the official said.
The Su-30MKM and Su-MKA are multi-role Flanker variants based on the Su-30MKI model and feature a customized avionics suite to meet Malaysian and Algerian specifications respectively.
“We sent the first two Su-30MKMs to Malaysia on the first day of the Paris air show,” Demchenko said. “The first six aircraft will be delivered to Algeria this year.”
In addition, the head of Irkut said the company had signed contracts on the delivery of 150 Yak-130 trainers, with the Russian Air Force ordering 60 aircraft and Algeria purchasing 16 trainers.
“We have also received solid orders for another 82 aircraft,” Demchenko said.
The Yak-130 is a highly maneuverable single-seat combat trainer with an extended range of about 2,000 kilometers (1,250 miles) and a maximum speed of 1,060 km/h (600 mp/h) in level flight. It can carry a combat payload of up to 3,000 kg (6,600 pounds), consisting of a variety of Russian and Western developed weapons.
The Russian Air Force is planning to commission over 200 Yak-130 combat tr
Tell me when the Russians are mentioning China will build unlicense aircraft? see that most of the Su-30 are for India, see they do not mention China is building or buying Flankers
Source
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20070619/67464798.html
MiG-23MLDIt’s good that they know about Taihang, since everyone in the military community knows that engine by now. I don’t see how them knowing WS-10A has anything to do with anything.
As mentioned everywhere, J-11B uses all Chinese components. No amount of knowledge on Russian side is going to change that.
it is not only they know about it but they also work on it
Salyut is basicly working with Limin and they are helping in the WS-10, the Russians know more things than you credit them.
Basicly the J-11 is not chinese, it is Russian and it has a lot of Russian tech, from the SD-10, the Su-27SK and now even the WS-10, you call indigenization but it is Russian tech that has been transfered to China, however this technology has been originally created in Russia, you do not give credit to even an airframe that was designed in Russia, the AA-12 tech that was transfered to the SD-10 and the Russian aid in the WS-10.
MiG-23MLDThe TASS article mentions “J-10”. This thread is about J-11B.
And if the two engine makers are discussing about engine interchangeability and mentioned the J-10…. I assume it is between the AL-31FN and the WS-10……….this leaves the J-11B out of the picture as the gear box is mounted differently for the AL-31F engines on the Flanker.
They are collaborating in the ways they can improve the reliability, the thrust and the interchangeability of the WS-10, however this does not leave the J-11B out of the question since basicly the WS-10 also powers the J-11B
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