SnapperRE: Hendon B-17
Bastards. FL-W and FL-D filters on a lens, and still you get a load of old #####. A waste of time that place. Flash is only good close-up, and then only if you can get rid of reflections. Anyone have any idea about the colour temperature there? Surely not Tungsten, and it doesn’t seem daylight balanced or Sodium. Makes me angry that.
‘OPPING MAD!
SnapperRE: Tom wrote
Well, publication date has arrived (for the first publication anyway!).
2 errors to report – Alan ‘Base’ Haddon instead of Alan ‘Babe’ Haddon – just a typo, no real cause for concern. More worrying is the way my name is spelt – Amy Lyall instead of Mark Crame! It would appear that not only have I acquired a different pen name, but also a different pen sex! Hmm. Not really cricket, is it old boy? Still, we must be thankful, as the Great Yarmouth Mercury is carrying a double page spread on Johnny and the appeal. That’s what counts really. We have a previously unpublished pic of Johnny, (a still from ‘Between friends), the oft-seen one of Johnny and Babe on a Typhoon, and a head and shoulders of Mayer. It looks good!
So, in order to help towards the appeal, if any of you would like to order a copy, I will send them to you for the grand price of just over five times the cover price (£2.50 instead of 45p) in order to cover postage, and kickstart the collection. Of course, you can have multiple copies, or pay more if you wish…..
SnapperRE: A tough question about real pilots in fictional films.
119732 H.L. Gilbert. Pilot Officer. A pre-war make up artist in Hollywood. Became British Army Officer, transferred to RAF, joined 609 (WR) Sqn at Duxford 30/06/1942 under Paul Richey. On 30/07/42 crash landed Typhoon R7816 at Catwater Farm in Cambs, following engine failure. In following month, August, he was concussed in another forced landing and went on sick leave. (He suffered an engine failure one day, and just let it crash straight ahead without taking any action to save the plane – but I’m not sure which incident this refers too.)In December he rejoined 609 under Roland Beamont but Bee posted him to an Army Air Corps Unit overseas. Post-war Bee and Pat, his wife, were taken to a show and one of the ‘artists’ was Gilbert who had spotted Bee and after the show came up to them and said “I say Sir would you mind telling me why I was posted away from 609?” Bee was hard pushed to answer without hurting his feelings. Gilbert never flew a single operational mission before being ‘bumped off’ the Squadron.
This is all gleaned from various e-mails, and under the name of Humphrey Lestocq there are quite a few hits on google RE: his later career.
BUT I STILL DON’T KNOW HIS FIRST NAME OR WHERE HE WAS POSTED TOO! Now is that a competition or what?
SnapperRE: A tough question about real pilots in fictional films.
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 21-11-02 AT 03:05 PM (GMT)]Flight Lieutenant ‘Batchy’ Salter was Humphrey Lestocq. Humphrey Lestocq was Pilot Officer J.L. Gilbert.
Come one guys, fill in the rest!
SnapperRE: Pathe News Footage
SUPERB! Thanks Lancman. Just woke up to Typhoons!
SnapperRE: Tom wrote
A scouser Moggy? Does that mean I shouldn’t let on where the nice, shiny plaque is going to be? LOL.
Yes Tom, Raymond Lallemand is still alive, and well. I saw him last year (though he disappeared somewhere) at Duxford. Still active and fit from what I hear. In fact, I think about 15 609 Sqn Typhoon era bods are still with us, and two (Joe Atkinson and Janusz Zurakowski) from the Spit era. I am rather jealous of your position re: the Tempest V – any chance of it flying at Legends once done? I live in hope…
To my knowledge, no decorations were awarded for this action (on the RAF’s side!) . Jean De Selys Longchamps died with 3 Sqn on August 16th 1943, but the others all survived the war. Lallemand ended the war with the DFC and Bar, and De Selys with the DFC. To my knowledge Polek was never decorated, and nor was Payne. A normal working day for 609…..
SnapperRE: A surprise on Remembrance Sunday.
Found this, scanned as a jpeg, on a CD that I had kicking around that a friend sent a few months back. Have typed up for you lot. Enjoy!
INTELLIGENCE FORM “F”
COMBAT REPORT
609 Squadron Manston
Battle of the M.T.B
F/O Payne F/O Lallemand F/O De Selys F/O Polek F/Sgt Haddon Sgt Wiseman
A. 14/2/43
B. 609 (West Riding) Sqdn
C. Typhoons 1B
D. 1150, 1200, 1210 hours
E. Between Dover and Gris Nez
F. 10/10ths cloud at 1000ft, 500ft thick
G. 1 Typhoon Cat.B 2 Typhoons Cat E
H. F/Sgt Haddon and Sgt Wiseman missing believed killed
J. 4 Fw190’s destroyed 3 Fw190’s probable
609 Squadron was detailed to supply sections to patrol in defence of an M.T.B lying between Dover and Gris Nez disabled after striking hidden wreckage. Altogether 3 sections, of 2 Typhoons, were involved, taking off between 1030 and 1145. The first section (F/Sgt Haddon and Sgt Wiseman) left at 1030 and both pilots failed to return. The skipper of the M.T.B reported that he saw the 2 Typhoons flying at 500ft in line astern, 1000yds apart. 2 Fw190’s then bounced the second Typhoon and it crashed in flames, they then attacked the first Typhoon and cut off both the wings, this Typhoon also crashed into the sea.
The remaining 4 Typhoons shot down 7 Fw190’s destroyed, or probably destroyed and prevented any further attacks on the M.T.B
F/O Lallemand (Belg) and F/O Polek (Polish) left Manston 1129 on defensive patrol and were then vectored to the position of the M.T.B Flying at 300ft they sighted 4 Fw190’s in square formation, on the deck and heading W. Typhoon’s attacked and the 190’s split up, there was a dogfight. On his first burst from astern Lallemand saw no result. After various gyrations he saw Polek chasing a 190 with another 190 behind him and firing. Lallemand approached from the beam and fired at the 190 behind Polek, obtaining hits on the cockpit. Lallemand almost rammed the enemy aircraft which crashed into the sea. Polek meantime had fired at a 190 while it was turning and diving, and then gave it a long burst as it climbed. The 190 poured thick white smoke and made cloud at such a low rate that Polek, following, was at stalling point. Polek believes the pilot was dead as he made no attempt to evade or avoid stalling.
Our two pilots then rejoined and continued patrol for about 10 minutes near Gris Nez when Swingate reported bandits approaching them from the east. Presently 4 Fw190’s were seen, again in 2 pairs and flying parallel, ahead and to port. Typhoon’s and 190’s all climbed and orbited. F/O Lallemand reports he had no trouble in out turning them. With the leading pair turning on a parallel course to port, he fired at one of the second pair from 15 degrees and it turned on its back. Whilst it was inverted he fired again from above, seeing strikes on its belly. As he overshot the e/a was still inverted, travelling at great speed in a dive from 300ft. He believes it went straight into the sea. (It is requested that if the evidence is considered sufficient, this claim be stepped up to Destroyed). Lallemand then fired a full beam shot at the second E/A of the pair from 350-400 yds, E/A dived and to his surprise burst into flames – Polek saw it go in. Polek himself got on the tail of another E/A (presumably one of the leading pair). This made a sharp climbing turn and Polek fired from the quarter at 100yds range shortly before the E/A reached cloud and he had to break away as the fourth E/A was on his tail. Though he saw no results of his fire, Lallemand saw this E/A flying slowly along the coast below cliff level, losing height and pouring blue-black smoke. (Claim:- probably destroyed) The 2 Typhoons landed Manston at 1217hrs.
F/O De Selys (Belg) and F/O Payne (airborne 1145-1233) hearing E/A reported, and knowing the other section of Typhoons were with M.T.B’s decided first on the wide sweep towards Calais from West, then down the French Coast to Gris Nez. As they were approaching Calais, and turning south, they were attacked by 3 Fw190’s flying North. The shooting missed and De Selys, warning his No.2 behind, turned sharply – observing the third E/A to be continuing North – the second was flying inland over Calais and the third was finishing a wide turn.
F/O De Selys engaged this third E/A in a head on attack, opening fire as he closed to 700 yes and seeing the E/A catch fire as it flashed overhead. Turning, he saw it stall at 300ft and spin into the sea about half a mile off Calais. Fire from the 190 had hit De Selys’ aircraft in the wings.
F/O Payne chased a 190 up into cloud and lost him. On re-emerging from cloud, off Calais, he saw 2 Fw190’s behind another a/c which he thought was De Selys and called a warning (De Selys was not in the area at that moment). The 2 E/A’s broke away however and climbed up into cloud over France. Payne followed and above cloud found himself 350 yds behind the starboard E/A. Opening fire from a slight angle he saw many strikes on the starboard wing and flames from the side of the fuselage. The 190 turned right and fell away into cloud still on fire. The other 190 turned left and was not seen again despite a search below cloud.
The two Typhoons met up over the Channel and returned to base.
Enemy Aircraft Camouflage.
The first quartet of 190’s were painted very dark, with black crosses on the wings, without white outline and no crosses on the fuselage.
The second quartet were a light grey with grey-blue bellies, yellow fins, a yellow band round the rear of the fuselage, and a yellow stripe running from leading to trailing edge, halfway along the wing. One of them also had a yellow arrowhead on the fuselage, and had the lower half of the fuselage painted black fro exhaust to cockpit. One of the final 190’s appeared black from the plan view.
4 Fw190’s destroyed.
2 Fw190’s probables.
F/Sgt Haddon and Sgt Wiseman, missing believed killed.
SnapperRE: Why it is so different? Lancaster and Halifax
Pah. BUFF’s as the yanks call them. Four bloody great fuel guzzling engines? Where’s the bloody glamour in that? Where’s the grace?
I’d rather have a sandwich.
SnapperRE: A tough question about real pilots in fictional films.
He did, but what was his real name, and what units did he fly with?
Hehe.
SnapperRE: A tough question about real pilots in fictional films.
A clue:
Humphrey Lestocq was his stage name.
SnapperRE: Foyles Law
Nah, sorry mate – missed it. Got ratted on red at lunch time around a friends, then came home after having white at parents, plonked myself down in front of my PC, had a quick go on CFS3, then proceeded to respond to emails, do research, and type up a combat report that I didn’t realise I had! Rather a pleasant Sunday, but I’m afraid I missed the lady with the tarnished buttons.
What’s a Spitfire?
SnapperRE: Tempests
Hell yeah, Bee was Mr Tempest. Be a nice touch to honour him in that way. Lets hope they see sense.
SnapperRE: THAT scheme…
This is what ‘Bee’ Beamont had to say when I spoke to him a few months before his death:
RE: Kermit Weeks Tempest V Restoration
I’ve been in touch with him and I expect that will reach a completed state. Whether it will fly again is questionable I think, because there isn’t a good supplier of Sabre engines. He’s got one fairly low life engine available, and he will complete the aeroplane, he is an extraordinary man and he does this to any aeroplane he gets hold of, he’ll have the work carried on for year after year until it’s done. I gather that with the Tempest, which is at Booker, the fuselage is in a fairly complete state and I think its all looking quite good. I would like to see it flying of course.
RE: The Typhoon/Tempest Against the Rest.
The thing of course about the Typhoon, and particularly the Tempest at the end of the war, was that the Tempest was a development of the Typhoon with all its bugs out. It was a very, very fine aeroplane indeed, but It arrived too late to get into service in large numbers, their were only two wings of them by the end of the war. But they had an incredible record out in Holland and Germany in the last few months, and joined Second Tactical Air Force in September, while the Spitfires had been in second TAF on the continent ever since May when the Normandy invasion started. But the Tempests, my wing that is, ended up equal top scorers with the Spitfire wing against enemy aircraft and at the same time they were the highest scorers of all against MT, transport, and locomotives. They were an extremely successful aircraft. You could out fly anything below twenty thousand feet, which was where that battle was being fought. From September 1944 through to the end of the war I think you could outperform P51’s, P47’s, and any mark of Spitfire. (Myself: It must have been quite a beast) It was, it was very good.
Thats verbatim. Note he doesn’t mention it’s quality as a target tug…..
SnapperRE: A surprise on Remembrance Sunday.
I’m in Lowestoft now. My dad was born in Aylsham, and I grew up in Haddiscoe (I was born abroad). No Idea about Moggy! I’m a true Norfolk boy though.
When I get an idea into my carrot-crunching turnip-head, I tend to run with it. I haven’t as yet managed to track down the parish council though. When I phoned BBMF they siad that they don’t start flying until May, so no Spitfire. However, they can arrange (Strike Command handles all this stuff) other aircraft. This got me thinking – I know a chap who knows a chap. Anyone seen a new Typhoon flying?! Lets hope tomorrow brings positive e-mail responses…..!!
Any excuse for a party me.
SnapperRE: A surprise on Remembrance Sunday.
Here’s a starting point. This is in the Great Yarmouth Mercury today (Friday 15th November). I must say that I find “personal battle” to be a bit strong / lyrical I think, but hey – its out there. Lets just hope that it has the desired effect, and gets me some more info on John, finds some relatives, and gets a memorial in place.
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