Thanks for the explanation but when you speak of SRP and P1EA etc to someone who lack some knowledge about this issue it could be made clearer. Basically I know there are tranche 1, 2 & 3 (A&B) but then I am a little bit confused about blocks & and upgrades and what they actually encompass.

I heard that tranche 1 could be scrapped but is P1E a way to upgrade early delivered typhoon ? what is it exactly and what encompass this upgrade and how does it fit with other typhoons ?

I am trying to have clear a bird eye view of typhoon upgrades : ie what the philosophy ? what the strategy ? …Before going into the details of upgrade names…If you had to explain typhoon roadmap from scratch with simple words to someone who need to learn (almost) everything how would you explain it simply ?

I am inclined to believe there is a roadmap for the typhoon but for the moment and from an uneducated external eye it seems that P1E & the likes are indeed upgrades with new softwares, some specific hardware upgrades (Dass) and new weapons but not of a huge scope like getting a new major piece of hardware like the radar.

Again from an external view the lack of milestones and true commitment is rather strange and lead to ask some question if there is true will to move forward.

Indians propose partnership if Dilma chooses Rafale
Veja, March 31

Brasilia – In the bilateral meeting between Brazil and India, Hyderabad House, the Indian government informed the President Rousseff that if she opts for the purchase of Rafale fighters, similar to what India did, the Indians are interested in establishing a technology partner with Brazilians to set up a joint project of technology transfer. According to the offer, the Indian government’s willingness to transfer the information they receive in relation to the Rafale, and the three countries – Brazil, India and France (the airplane manufacturer) could then work together in a project technology partnership.
[…]

http://veja.abril.com.br/noticia/brasil/indianos-propoem-parceria-caso-dilma-opte-por-rafale

Rafale F1 renovation started
Mer et Marine, 30 march

The images are impressive and give a good idea of ​​the scope of work. At the Atelier Industriel de l’Aéronautique (AIA) of Clermont-Ferrand , its on a cabin that seemed almost naked that Service Industrial Aerospace (SIAé) teams began working a few weeks ago. This aircraft is hardly recognizable, the M10, one of 10 Rafale F1 standard of French naval aviation. The modernization project of these devices has indeed begun. It must be remembered that the M1 to M10 were delivered urgently by Dassault Aviation from 1999 to replace the F-8P Crusader, whose last survivors were so out of breath. Constrained by the schedule of withdrawal of the old interceptors, Dassault has delivered to Navy aircraft with limited capacity, with the sole mission of air defense for the aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle. It was only from 2006 that the Rafale was able to conduct air-ground attacks with the arrival of the F2 standard with the M11, the aircraft became completely versatile with the F3 standard in 2008 (all F2 has since been retrofitted to F3 standard). In 2008, the decision was made to mothballed M2 to M10 Rafale, so 9 units, in order to modernize them later. Only the M1 continued to flight, for the benefit of Dassault at the the Istres air base, for testing new equipment.

impressive pictures of the rafale M1 brought to the F3 standard here (one year per aircraft upgrade) :

http://www.meretmarine.com/article.cfm?id=119261

Telugu Desam Party’s Rajya Sabha MP M.V. Mysura Reddy wrote to Antony alleging deviations in procedure. Officials involved in negotiations say the probe will delay the deal by only a “month or two”. Ministry of Defence (MoD) expects the deal to be signed before March 31, 2013.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/defence-minister-orders-probe-dassault-rafale-charges-of-irregularities/1/178050.html

Indeed, the situation is the negotiations are not stopping despite the probe.

Two of the 15 members in the defence ministry’s Contract Negotiation Committee (CNC) have questioned the methods adopted to conclude that Rafale was cheaper than Eurofighter Typhoon in lifecycle costs.

“But the matter was resolved, with the observations of the two being recorded…all committees face dissent from one or more members…it does not mean the process will come to a stop,” said a senior official.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Antony-promises-to-scrap-defence-murky-deals/articleshow/12461756.cms

Dassault confident in the sale of the Rafale, despite new attacks in India
Les Echos , March 19

An Indian MP denounced the “violation” and “manipulation” of the tender won by Dassault for the sale of 126 fighter planes. Confident, the manufacturer hopes to conclude within six months.

Six weeks after winning the jackpot in India, Dassault began to wipe away the first attacks to derail the negotiations, now exclusive to the sale of 126 Rafale in New Delhi. The Eurofighter consortium, which failed in the final, has clearly not given up. The contract, valued at $ 10 billion, should nevertheless be concluded in about six months, assures Eric Trappier, CEO of Dassault International [see above].

After innuendo about the reality of the price offered by the French group, a new burst was launched of the end of February. In a letter to Indian Defense Minister, MP Mysoora Reddy denounced the “violation” of the evaluation process, and “manipulation” by which the “official” who were in charge reached an “incorrect”decision . The French aircraft were never purchased abroad, “why India would buy it? ” he asks , before unleashing his last arrow: in Libya, the Rafale has failed in ground attack missions, to the point that the Eurofighter has been called in reinforcements!

Proven multirole capability

[u]Apart from the “Deccan Chronicle”, which made good use of it, no major Indian newspaper has seen fit to follow. The final argument used by Mysoora Reddy indeed undermines his approach: unlike the Eurofighter, the Rafale has demonstrated all its multirole capabilities during Operation Harmattan. Nevertheless, the Indian Defense Minister had promised to study by its staff all issues raised by the member. On Tweeter information is up a notch: since “investigation is ongoing,” it is because there are doubts about the outcome of the tender. Case made. So, the men of BAE Systems and EADS, two of the three companies in the Eurofighter consortium with Italy’s Finmeccanica, did not deny themselves to use it , and since then it spreads.

To nip in the bud any suspicion, Dassault emerged a 2009 article in the journal “Flightglobal” in which the first English rider to have tested the Rafale, expressed his admiration for the aircraft … The manufacturer also remember that it outperformed its competitors in all competitions in which they competed.

Gradually, as the negotiation goes forward, it is likely that the traps will multiply. Some will see behind the attacks the hand of BAE Systems, however Dassault’s new best friend! Since the signing of the defense treaty between France and England in November 2010 at Lancaster House, the two companies are working together on the proposed next-generation UAV. Better, at the summit of Cameron-Sarkozy last month, the duo was awarded the first post-Rafale and Eurofighter studies.

Until there is a signature nothing is done but as far as this accusation is concerned I am not that worried as each argument brought are easilliy debunkable. Certainly it can bring some confusion but it is rather a weak attempt to derail the negotiations.

It does not seem to bother Dassault that much for the moment, especially as Trapier and Edelstenn spoke in the open press recentently and are still hoping a signature in around 6 months. So as far as I am concerned I still have a watchfull eyes on this episode but I am not that worried.

Now Brazil and UAE chances can be considered as “good” and the confidence is such that some significant investment at Ellacourt facilities is being made to be ready for delivery on time the promised upgrades.

So nothing is certain but the exports persepctives are nevertheless rather good for the rafale at this moment.

New rafale video about the manufacturing process in France :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db3w8j0woj0

Indeed.

This discussion is talking a lot of hot air.

If you want to compare you should go back to fundamental. On one hand you have a mature advanced multirole aircraft with an AESA already developed and available and in the other hand you have a fighter with still very limited multirole capability who still need to go through heavy development to compete.

Today there is still no true “clear” roadmap for the typhoon except vague claims. No significant milestones was achieved yet putting in doubt the will of partner nations to go forward. When you are still at the stage of simulating potential gain of an AESA vs an MSA it is quite worrying.

As for the new weapons the rafale is currently getting the GBU-49 integrated and Brimstones are still regarded as a serious option.

video of rafale weapons release :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3kV-qs3iN8

Article two :

Rousseff travels to India to discuss trade and Rafale fighters
Univision/AFP , March 22

The president of Brazil, Dilma Rousseff, will travel to New Delhi next week with an agenda that includes discussions on India’s preference for the French Rafale fighter jet and a substantial expansion of trade, said Thursday the Brazilian Foreign Ministry.

Rousseff participate Thursday in New Delhi at the Fourth Summit of the BRICS (the forum that integrate emerging powers Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa), and held a day after a state visit to the country.

“The exchange of ideas, impressions” on the indian option for the French fighter “is certainly gratifying for us,” said at a news conference
the Brazilian Foreign Ministry Undersecretary Edileuza Fonteneles Maria Reis.
Analysts and government sources indicated that India’s decision to enter exclusive negotiations with France for the purchase of 126 fighter Rafale, a tender estimated at 12,000 million dollars, can help convince Brazil to opt for the same aircraft.

The Brazilian diplomat said the defense minister, Celso Amorim, traveled to India in February, when he discussed the possibility of a “military technical agreement” between the two countries, of which Brazil has already presented a project.

“Under that agreement (during the visit of Dilma Rousseff) we will exchange information of common interest in the fields of military and defense,” she said, noting that “India and Brazil have plans to modernize their fleet of fighters and develop submarine nuclear propulsion, these are two areas of interest of the two countries. “
[…]