ELPGap filler? 20 missiles? You must see the flaw in that. Ditto the contingency plan, since I can’t imagine a contingency in which Israel would be short of aircraft, yet have spare missiles. More likely that the USA would be shipping missiles for the Israelis to use on their own aircraft.
Well, like I said it is weird.
As for contingency stuff. If the idea of bombing Iran happens ( no matter who does it ) , I can see the need for several plans to be pulled out of the safe and read up on/refined etc.
ELPThe dems that won this time….
-Won on a more centrist platform
-Were protest votes of anything but a republican
There isn’t much left to “cut” in the military. It is already cut to the bone. Dems do not want to have anything that can be used against them in 2008 implying they are “weak” on defense. If anything, the dems know voting margins are thin. They will keep the defense establishment happy for now. After 2008 assuming they win…. who knows? Right now though doing anything adverse to defense is too high risk for them. JSF will hum right along partly because LM and the rest of the military industrial complex will provide plenty of campaign dollars to those currently in power. The JSF program has grown large enough to benefit from “voter graft”, where the congressman/senator in question, knows that it is “good for America” ( votes for him ) or some other such rubish. And the fact that the JSF program looks ( in a scary way ), very much in order, on the class curve of defense programs and how many other programs can have some serious ugly parts. I think just about any other big ticket item except JSF is apt to be slowed down …even if slowing down a program costs more in the long run… the money you have to divide up for each budget now…. looks like you are spending less on said program, even if in the long run… you aren’t. This last budget, gives the appearance that all concerned are doing right by the taxpayer re: JSF even though it will cost more in the long run due to lower production numbers mandated by congress…. USN/USMC moving JSF fielding ( 2 ?) years to the right, etc. The second engine fiasco still has to be paid for in the budget some how. A small amount of it has been but not much. Grand total in rising costs due to the second engine vendor is going to be an additional 3 Billion to the program. Unknown what other additional costs will happen from going back to the old foreign military sales business model of appeasement/workshare vs. the original JSF plan to select worldwide component suppliers based on proven best value of the component supplier. I would bet that the Norway engine component deal was not “best value” but an attempt to keep Norway happy. Turkey also looks like it will want to brush aside “best value” too and get their 5-6 billion of workshare out of JSF if their plan for 100 airframes becomes a reality. And re: Turkey workshare…. it is only politics so congress understands that. Anyone else here see some other potential show stoppers I might have missed? Other than that…. the health of the program should be OK. Interesting times ahead, but I would wager JSF is safe now. Also, the first flight should happen before congress gets back in session. And since part of the plan of the first flight was to move right into a steady flight test program with no delays, this should be an extra safety feature to keep the politicos happy.
Dems are going to be so busy assembling various hearings on Iraq, no bid government contracts ( all the outsourced logistics/training/security providers for Iraq, Afghanistan, Katrina etc ). All the lost dollars like the 8 billion still missing in Iraq that was given away to who knows what and other such money gaffs… that as long as JSF doesn’t upset the dems pleasure and stays quiet…. There won’t be a problem. Matter of fact traditional big ticket defense providers of aircraft, ships, subs etc etc. will love it if the upstart war logistics contractors get put in their place as those items have been pulling money the traditional providers see as their own. The traditionals don’t care one damn if Iraq or whatever Team America: WORLD POLICE GWOT action gets bashed, just as long as they regain pieces of the budget pie they think rightfully belong to them.
ELPHmmmm interesting thought.
My limited thinking was that there might be a program shortage and like the LITENING where the Guard bought it off the shelf because they needed a good laser pod now ( 2001-2002 ) and not waiting for the new precision laser pod contract to be awarded a few years later. In this case the Python is a gap filler? Even that is a weak idea.
Strange, seems like if it was to support foreign military sales as SOC mentions, that there would be a mention of that.
Or a contingency plan in the safe where…. for what ever reason in an OPLAN, a Squadron of USAF F-16s deploys to Israel?
All kind of weird isn’t it?
ELPThanks Aurcov.
Yeah the Longshot is a toss up. Depends what you want to do. Isn’t that stock kit limited to 1000lb weight? And yes it is easier to mod certain aircraft but there is ( in the case of the B-1, B-2, F-18E/F as other aircraft grow the ability some unworkability with that nice simplicity of Longshot, where you do radar assisted/enhanced bombing ( targets that allow it ) and offset bombing which in the case of those aircraft have a faster interface to pipe the enhanced cords directly from the bomb/nav system into the selected weapons on the rack on your final bomb run. Also the thing were we do a lot of NCW ( netcentric warfare ) now where a batch of cords are piped into your display over the network and you assign the weapons to them on your MFD menu without typing in LAT LONGs.
Correct me, but in the case of Longshot you have to type in the cord on the UFD? Good for a lot of situations and a lot of fighters you don’t want to install a new laser-ring gyro-secure anti-jam-anti-spoof GPS system into. I think both systems have their place.
ELPHi Harry. Hope you are doing well. Part of my thinking on that is that I think the JSF program is, on a class curve, very well run. However it is going to cost us ( example: USAF ) in other ways. Mostly, needed upgrades of other things. The JSF program does show that when you burn through a lot of cash, a program like JSF responds well. We are burning up about $319 million a day on another “project” that isn’t going so hot.
Think of what you could do if you sunk $276 Billion into the LCA. :diablo:
ELPTurkey JSF deal depends on $6 billion of workshare. (note the original “best value” JSF plan for vendors seems to have been thrown out the window )
TURKEY EYES LOCAL WORK SHARE IN US’ F-35 PROGRAM
Defense Minister Vecdi Gonul, on a visit to the US, said yesterday that Turkey was looking for a local work share worth of up to $6 billion in the US-led Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) F-35 program. Following talks with his US counterpart Donald Rumsfeld and Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon England in Washington, Gonul told reporters that his visit especially focused on determining the details on Turkey’s rights in production, usage, maintenance and training during F-35 production. He stated that Turkey had planned to purchase about 100 F-35s, and the first delivery to Turkey was expected to be made in 2014, adding that $175 million has been already paid for the project. Gonul then traveled to the state of Texas, where F-35s are being produced.
ELPInteresting opinions here re: The RAAF JSF roadmap….
At present I am observing a Defence organisation that has illusions of invulnerability, one that is suffering from collective rationalisation, a self-determined morality that quickly reverts to denial if challenged, and where serving members are subjected to an over-imposed requirement for conformity. In this context “self-censorship is prevalent, leading to a false appearance of unanimity, all being supervised by mindguards.” These are not my words, Professor Janis (1973) warned of such systemic organisational failings 33 years ago it is termed ‘groupthink’.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2006/11/avm-criss-does-groupthink-power-australias-jsf/index.php
ELPSilent Aircraft Institute aims for 2025 launch of barely-audible, energy-efficient blended wing-body SAX-40 airliner
A video is also provided.
I saw this and had to laugh. A big wing = large parking footprint at major civil airports. Good luck on that pipe dream. Of course anything can be worked I suppose. As long as there is a large economic advantage. If that doesn’ t exist, and the ROI isn’t there. Forget it.
Confused a bit by the article. Having flaps and slats extended doesn’t produce all that much noise on approach. What does, is the drag from that means in conventional airliners….the throttle settings are a bit higher ( more noise ). Interesting theories though. 787, A350, A380 etc are going to have to run their course.
ELPDepends. Dumb submunitions have a high dud rate both air to ground munitions and artillery ( like MLRS ). They are pretty and yellow ( the color for live munitions ) kids pick them up and get maimed or killed. There was a post OIF situation in Baghdad were a little girl picked one up from a previous MLRS fire mission, and walked it over to a couple of US Army guys, it went off, injuring them and killing her.
Smart Submunitions like BLU-108b Sensor Fused Weapon ( SFW ) used in the same conflict, don’t leave around any duds. They have multiple failsafes in them. A peacenik group going around post OIF doing a report on bomblets, couldn’t find any SFWs in an area where they were used. They pretty much work as advertised. ( they should as they are dramatically more expensive).
Smart submunitions like the BLU-108b SFW carried in the Wind Corrected Munitions Container ( A CBU like canister with something similar to a JDAM tail kit on it ( GPS assisted ) In the form of CBU-105. Should be used when needed. They save lives. Ours. As was proven in OIF when some Marines called for air support to take out a column of Iraq tanks that was going to ruin their day. 2 CBU-105s dropped from a B-52, wiped out about a third of the enemy unit and the rest got out and surrendered. All they saw was the tanks in front of them blowing up and dieing and they didn’t know how it was happening. CBU-105 is about the best killer of AVFs and soft vehicles out in the open of anything out there as it is an “I can touch you but you can’t touch me, weapon.” In an air war where we destroy enemy airpower and large SAMs, CBU-105 can be released from 40,000ft several miles away outside of the range of Small SAMs, MANPADs, AAA, trashfire and hit it’s mark.
Not a big believer in the dumb submunitions that cause all the negative image stuff. Again the dud rate on them is high and were best used in a Fulda Gap scenario or against SAM/AAA sites in the old days. We have better ways now most of the time. The one exception to that would be NK. Any trouble started with them, we should seed the NK side with dumb submunitions twice over.
Off-topic. I also don’t have a problem with Flamagel/Incinigel ( replaced Napalm ). In it’s M77 form it is useful to our Marines. USMC used it once in a river crossing in OIF. Everything got real quiet like after the strike. Not something you use all the time because there are a lot of times where it is a pain in the neck to use and isn’t needed. The accuracy sux and it takes skill to deliver the things. USMC uses the M77 with no fins so it tumbles. As it is a dumb bomb delivery with a pretty loose CEP, that also means that weather and night, cloud cover makes it near impossible or unsafe to deliver them. They are usually used in a planned attack and not as a quick reaction weapon. Sending a jet up these days without precision guided munitions is a waste of gas and effort. So for those few targets where the weather is nice, and the target is a fixed defensive position that has to be taken out …. including things like expected resistance to a river crossing. M77 isn’t such a bad thing. It has an instant object lesson all it’s own to the spectators ( i.e. “your next” ). It is a rarely used but highly useful tool. M77 saves lives; our troops.
ELPYup. Impressive. This is one of the videos that demonstrates the useful accuracy of JDAM.
ELPThe Israel thing will have to pass congress. Where the idea of pumping even more advanced weapons into that region is unwise. In that case you could basically throw out any peace agreements Egypt and Israel have as a lot of that was based on at least the appearance of equal weapons technology. Giving JSF to Israel would be ill advised. It would flush the remaining shread of U.S. credibility in that region. The only way to recover from a dumb decision like that would be for the U.S. to give Egypt JSF. Stacking one stupid decsion on top of the other.
ELPThe PLA isn’t that dumb. This isn’t going to happen. Even then, it isn’t a force on force issue. Too many politicos like the system the way it is ( $$$ ) No one is going to be dumb enough to get in the way of the economy going the way it is now.
ELPWhat is the radar setup for the K?
ELPI may be wrong, but I think the Super Entendard that hit the Sheffield in the Falklands conflict with an Exocet was part of a buddy fuel routine supported by another Super ??
I was just curious how much of an effort with the JSF could be done? Where even a mod for the supporting refueling appliances would include small but still ( every little bit helps ) useful internal fuel tanks in the weapons bay ( in support of the hosts mission fuel ) when used in the buddy tanker role. Don’t know. Might note be worth the effort? My thinking on this was just in consideration that some JSF users may have a use for something like this….
ELPAlso due to limited DOD funding elsewhere… the F-35 Program is going to bury anything that gets in its way. The X-45 and X-47 concept were good ideas and at least for land strike, any of the issues could have been worked. Again not as some uber replacement of anything… but as an ehancement to air warfare. A justified enhancement. The SEAD/DEAD mission was justification enough.
The big laugh on this was the press release not long ago saying JSF could be marketed as a UCAV. ( cue canned laughter ) I could see Moe smacking Curley after that one got published. It sounded as stupid as it looked in print.
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