Ross_McNeillQuote – “The Royal Navy lost a few Sea King and Wessex helicopters but none on land”
There was one Sea King loss over land during the Falklands Campaign.
ZA290
Cause chalked up to arson.
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillMainly announced as to extend the recce ability beyond the max operating height of the Valiant but as usual there were other political, economic and operational drivers at work also.
There were other parallel roles for Valiant/Canberra eg ECM and Signal Intel so it seems that one role /one airframe was not an economic limit for the airships of the day.
Hindsight shows the logic paid off with other operational assets being in place to take up tasking when a type failed in a role or change of operating conditions.
Canberra had been a very lucrative airframe for English Electric (some airframes going on being sold at least three times to different air forces in their life) and the BI(8) being was well looked on for it’s RAF service (prior to 1959 when design study P28 was produced by Warton). This meant that the internal development costs of the B(I)8 for a more powerful low level interdictor airframe could be viewed with potential upgrade sales to the RAF and other air forces.
P28 looked to improve the BI(8) penetration speed, range at low level and low level stability for fatigue improvement both of pilot and airframe. All features that would come to favour the PR.9 remaining as the recce platform when the V force changed from high level to low level.
The airframe produced had power operated controls to give quick, accurate control response and the combination of wing loading/ ratio of tare to all up loading/engine power all resulted in an airframe that was stated in the glossy catalogue as 50,000ft + but in reality was 60,000ft+.
This fitted the need for an additional high level strategic recce airframe for the RAF and was offered with a lower development cost burden than the other crescent/delta airframes being considered.
For the politicians the use of Shorts in Belfast to produce the licence built examples was an attractive hook and EE would not have to divert mainland factory production space from production of other types.
I think that Wyton was used as the into service location due to the presence of the photo “moles” ground staff to process the film rather than role supplement of Valiant.
The PR.9 was quite quickly moved from the UK to Malta with war bases intended in Turkey giving a strategic operating role divorced from the remaining Valiant PR fleet.
The initial operating height of 60,000+ was achieved by crew partial pressure suits/helmets and uprated oxygen regs. When Typhoon was initially being trialled in service at these heights Safety Section at Marham re-lifed a few of the 1960s high altitude kit for development use before the bespoke airframe specific kit had arrived.
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillBristol Bulldog according to The National Archives
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C3306098
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillNo plotting radar fitted in the 9 from into service date to the out of service date. Only Doppler drift and then retrofit of rear warning radar in the 80s.
Plotting table was flimsy fold up affair similar to airline tray backs. Used when undertaking survey work in conjunction with optical periscope to visually check drift and track against chart.
When brought into service main navigation equipment was Green Satin and Ground Position Indicator http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Satin_radar.
This gave a readout of estimated position as Lat/Long or Grid and indication of drift. Needed manual transfer to chart for visualization of position, track and surroundings. Radio Alt was fitted for height.
The next fit lasted until the out of service date was TANS (Tactical Air Navigation System) which replaced the two Green Satin/GPIV units with one box and added an inertial gyro system. Again this was text readout only with no moving map display or position visualisation.
There was no missile threat warning/countermeasures fitted until RWR in the 80s and chaff dispensers not installed until the Drug Overlords took exception to the Afgan poppy crop overflights. Shades of Gary Powers (fly high – no sam threat).
There was one early attempt to use the flare pistol fitted above the nav left shoulder to fire a packed charge of chaff but it was quickly suspended when the first shots just sent a compact ball of chaff into the intake of the port engine.
Nav was old school pencil in the ear and charts stuffed into the pockets for the duration of the service life + two life extensions.
One of the reasons I suspect that FatNav commented on how better it was to have photo gear and nav gear around in the same place rather than leave nav table to go to photo position.
In terms of extra eyes for visual threat look out.
The broad wing gave all canberras blind spot that the pilot (and a tandem nav) could not see below and behind. This was the favoured spot for interception. In the case of the 9 the nav used the periscope to give clear vision into these areas and easily spotted creeping Phantom and Tornado interlopers during Air Defence exercises.
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillDon’t know.
Possibly because the B-59 was a cancelled Boeing development project and the Martin B-57B was the tandem canopy derivative of the Canberra B2 that Martin was licenced to build.
More probably the thinking was set by the lessons of the BI(8) arrangement and to re jig the offset pilot position control runs would be excessive work to centralise the crew positions. Also as fatnav says the nose position allowed wrap round panels at elbow height, plotting table at waist height, periscope display infront and Green Satin/GPIV (later TANS, RWR display etc) all ranged three or four units high in front. All without the limitations of truncation for a narrow canopy width.
Ross
Ross_McNeillBlack T shirts are available at many sources but you will need to add your own holes and pass” fitness for purpose” from Mark12 before being considered for membership.
Oh and you also need to renounce membership of the human race.
Drop me a PM with an email address and I’ll send over a copy of the engineering drawing.
Waiting for countersunk BA fixings to complete installation of rear mounted pillars and instruments on this panel.
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillMagic,
If it was the incorrect steel or ally copies then I was going to suggest rather than mod to cut from new but this material and thickness is close to the original SRBF so I would persevere and mod to correct (if you wish to join the trainspotter rivet counter ranks of spitfire panel display).
To most it’s an early spitfire panel “with no corrosion” and is seen as such.
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillLooking at the mods you would need to do for a Mk.IX it would be simpler to correct the panel you have for a Mk.II.
Biggest area for rework is Oxygen Reg but you may get away with a small amount of butt joint material added to fill the gaps.
Most of the rest is adding extra holes and filling the extra pushbutton.
Only other major comment is Oil and Coolant temp gauges for MkII should really be round case type, rear mounted.
Pivot point for tail trim indicator needle needs moving as well.
To be pedantic what thickness and material is the panel board made out of?
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillBasically yes but relocation came with advantages in use.
Pig of a job but the nav could change the film cartridges in the oblique cameras during flight.
Allowed swap during mission to colour/black and white/Infra red images that could not be done with remote camera bays.
When bored on the long transits the pilot could unseat, squirm down into the space below his fuel panel (where the access door on other mks was) and reach through equipment to tap nav on shoulder and give him fright of life at 30,000 ft.
Revenge was swift as nav could then reach back and tie pilot boot laces together giving ground crew smile when he tried to get out.
Other story was when mess was closed at Malta – nose infront of nav feet was stacked with champers bottles for return…..nav said nasty moment when strapped in and bottles start popping corks at your head!.
Ross
Ross_McNeill[ATTACH=CONFIG]230958[/ATTACH]
Here is one I made earlier.
It’s to drawing 32934/23 Issue G
The differences on this panel to the picky of the panel in the MkII pilot’s notes are:
Reflector Sight On/Off switch deleted.
No panel cut out for clock, surface mount fixing holes only.
Landing Lamp switch deleted.
The errors in the panel you have are:
No Fuel Gauge Contents pushbutton (recessed)
No Cartridge Start indexer provision.
No Generator On/OFF Switch.
No cable feed trough holes for Sight Dimmer/socket
No rectangular cut out to allow flap actuator pipework to be installed from front of panel.
Oxy reg cut out wrong shape completely
No fixings for rear mounted terminal block and cable support below oxygen reg.
U/C was two hole fixing for all marks not 4 hole.
No fixings for compass deviation card
Cannot tell but cockpit dimmers should be rear mounted with countersunk fixings.
Mag cut out should be narrow rectangle for toggles only not large square to accept rear of switch.
No notches for upper skin stringers
Two pushbuttons instead of one
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillIt’s a hybrid “not quite MkII/MkV”
Oxyreg is very late Mk not Mk8 for MkII/V
should have two compass correction cards for MkV, one for MkII
Two push buttons are wrong for MkII with cartridge start (indexer missing for starboard bottom).
Fuel pressure gauge ok for MkII up to Issue G but became lamp later and for MkV.
No landing lamp switch (but correct for Mk II, issue G as long as reflector sight switch deleted as well)
Tank gauge pushbutton missing – needed for all marks until twin gauge came in.
Mag switch should be reverse mounted.
Generator switch missing.
etc
etc
etc
Ross
Ross_McNeillThe best view was reserved for the cameras.
The pilot came next to return the cameras safely to the ground.
The nav was supposed to know where he and the aircraft was so no need for external view other than the downward periscope (looked fwd and aft in an arc as well).
For the 9 the area behind the pilot was taken up with the electrical equipment bay, canopy pivot and pressurisation equipment. Moving further aft, the fwd camera bay (full height compartment) and then fwd fuselage fuel tank over the flare bay for the thirsty souped up avons.
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillHi Bob,
For other HP types give the IWM contact to see what they have on catalogue.
I took the following photos at RAFM Stafford store recently of the three stillages of drawings loaned from the IWM for the Hampden project.
Included drawing tubes for quite a few more types than the Hampden eg HP 50 Heyford, HP 32 Hamlet, HP 21 Shipboard fighter, Design for Spec G4/31 (HP.47) etc.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]230392[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]230393[/ATTACH]
The names on the tubes were tantalising.
RAFM Stafford stressed that they were not the owners just present location so IWM is your contact.
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillNot a Thames loss Zidante but due to the lack of any other info from the OP one to put on the ? spike.
Walrus L2228
“
29th – At 0830 hours in position 36-20N, 9-35W Force H were joined by destroyers FAULKNOR, FORESTER, FURY and WISHART from Gibraltar.
En route to Gibraltar FORESTER and FURY were detached to search for a reported U-boat.
At 1334 hours both of SHEFFIELD’s Walrus aircraft were catapulted off. One to carry out an A/S patrol around Force H and the other to deliver a message to the RENOWN and then to fly on to Gibraltar to collect mail.
At 1340 hours, having dropped his message on RENOWN’s forecastle, the Walrus flew low over the stern of RENOWN and as it flew through the hot gases from the funnel it went out of control and crashed hitting RENOWN’s stern before crashing into the sea and killing the three crew. A passenger RPO Marjoram, who was on board to collect the mail, was picked up by destroyer WISHART, but died of injuries.
At 1900 hours RENOWN, ARK ROYAL, SHEFFIELD, FAULKNOR and WISHART arrived back at Gibraltar.”
From
http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chrono-02BC-HMS_Renown.htm
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillPilot of TE183 was Sgt A T Paramanathan – Cummings, Final Landings
A quick look on FreeBMD gives a death registration for Kenneth S Harvey aged 23 in the first quarter of 1946 as Northumberland South.
May or may not be your man but you can see a better location of death and the cause by ordering up a copy of the death cert from the GRO (General Registry Office) quoting Vol 10b Page 398.
If this is not the man then he died outside England/Wales but I suspect that the record is for Kenneth Spencer Harvey.
Armed with a copy of the death cert then you could apply to RAF Disclosures at RAF Cranwell for a copy of his full service record (25 years after death outside service this is available to anyone).
Ross
Sign In
