Ross_McNeillI’m away from my copy at the moment but I think that Robert C. Mikesh set out to describe various category of airframes in his book Restoring Museum Aircraft.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Restoring-Museum-Aircraft-Robert-Mikesh/dp/0764332341
Any one with a copy to hand prepared to look up the section?
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeill13/2/43
ED450
Collided with barrage balloon cables then hit Plymouth Breakwater, Devon.
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillRe the outlines:
Not CSI body outline – think out of the box – and look to the RAF Museum Blog for the correct answer
“Recent visitors to our London and Cosford sites will have noticed that in our car parks we have drawn the outline of a Dornier Do-17. Soon you will be able to hold your smart phone over this area to see the aircraft come to life, hovering in mid-air thanks to augmented reality.
We will also have a new interactive display at our London site where you will see the Dornier rise again from the floor of the Sunderland Hall, while at Cosford the Dornier will fly out of a wall towards you. Around both exhibitions, pixels of information will explain the various stages of the recovery and conservation programme. These exhibitions and the construction of our Dornier 17 education centre would not be possible without the generous sponsorship of Wargaming.net.”
http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/blog/countdown-to-raising-the-Dornier-commences/
Only posted on 3rd May
Ross
Ross_McNeillWell done the RAFM, great work!!!! Now then, which one next?……….
Well if you are in the market for a similar condition Ju88 and have a half mill or so to buy the RAFM A team, nearby is another of Bob Peacocks finds.
Back broken just fwd of dinghy hatch, wings/fuselage/cockpit upside down but was appearing out of sand bar like the Dornier a few years ago.
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillHi,
The only way for sea recovered parts is to register them with the Receiver of Wreck within 28 days before you become a looter.
The R of W will then seek the owner for you – you are no longer part of the process so you will be wasting your time in contacting MoD.
Even the RAFM will need to declare the Dornier to the RoW to keep the paperwork straight.
R3151 of one of the losses in the area
The RNLI Record of Service is:
MAY 17TH. – BUCKIE, BANFFSHIRE.
A British aeroplane was reported to have crashed, but nothing was found except wreckage. – Rewards, £2 13s.
At roughly 14:30 hrs the Wellington was seen going into the waters off Spey Bay, 4 miles north north east of Buckie.
Source RNLI Record of Service 1939-46.
Attached is a copy of the Form 1180 for the crash which includes to only really link detail of engine numbers.
Copy right RAF Museum.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]217484[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]217485[/ATTACH]
The No.20 OTU ORB is held at Kew, London AIR 29/664 but this is one page summary for the month and does not list anything for crashes.
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillForay is correct to say he sees severe corrosion but there is evidence to say that this does not extend all of the visible structure.
The skin panels were at best 0.8mm thick when new. Only the wingtip area shows complete loss, similar thickness over the inner wing area shows only partial holes. Samples of panels were recovered and have been lab analysed to determine inter granular corrosion extent and best preservation protocols.
What does bode well is that the bulk of the structure is standing proud of the seabed and supporting relatively heavy u/c components without supporting sand.
The structure was strong enough to resist a nylon trawl net on the prop/engine boss without breaking away and being recovered to the harbour wall as in the picture by Grahame Knott. If everything was subject to severe corrosion it would have spread about the seabed when hit and not to have either ripped the trawl net, fastened the gear or broken the weak link.
To survive a nylon trawl relatively intact and still stand proud of the seabed shows a degree of structural soundness.
I see one of the two best states of structural preservation in a UK coastal aircraft wreck that I have witnessed or heard about.
There are 80 odd pages demanding pictures of submerged spitfires in crates of muddy water and dissecting “Mr Blobby” geo physic plots. Now Bob Peacock has produced HD video for this discovery which matches the high res sonar image and it barely merits a passing mention. At least a few members of the forum are prepared to click links on something other than SPITFIRE! to look and express views on what is seen.
Ross
I’m going to take a moment to say “told you so” here.
Glad that the RAF Museum team ploughed their own path, even with plan B, despite all the advice and statements of what will happen from elements on this forum.
To quote P/O Prune:
If the cap fits it should not fall over deaf ears!
Well done to the all the doers.
Ross
Ross_McNeillRoss_McNeillhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/tv/bbc_news24/watchlive
scroll to 17:47 hrs but be quick so as not to miss the live event.
regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillLive on BBC News.
Next 20 mins. diver cam of shackles being made off under water
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillAll the above advice is for aircraft wrecks on land.
For aircraft parts from the sea a much older procedure is needed to prevent you becoming an illegal looter.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/mcga07-home/emergencyresponse/mcga-receiverofwreck.htm
Ross
Ross_McNeillThe crane barge has cleared the Royal Harbour. Usually two hours towage to site.
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillDavid,
Before his widow partially cleaned up the site the images were all used as discoveries by S C-T and his Sea-Tech/Dive the World to try to gain money to investigate more.
It was the front of a fraud and used photos grabbed from other publications without copyright and used to describe aircraft types and locations that they could never be.
This was Rob Rhor answer to the P-47
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?24445-Dive-the-World-sham
He also appeared here to defend the photoshoped Sunderland in Windemere Sonar
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?27408-Sunderland-in-Lake-Windermere
What is now correctly shown as privateer in Lake Washington was widely hawked about here as a Stirling in the North Sea
Another long runner was the Spitfire Floatplane
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?73611-Of-legends-rumours-and-urban-myths
Defiant in Loch Ness
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?107322-RAF-Museum-Defiant
He used a variety of posting names on here to seemingly give support to the above threads from both male and female personalities.
Allison Johnson was one of his female posting names here for classic Troll actions
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?60412-Spitfire-P8187-in-Fresh-Water
I know of at least one dive team who he duped trying to take him to court to recover costs. He had claimed to have dived and located the Sunderland of an elderly relative who was then present on board the funded expedition when he claimed to have seen the skeletons of the crew still inside.
A character who still leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth for his actions and lack of any human respect to the fallen who he saw as a way of funding his diving.
The site remains a copyright breach of numerous publications.
Ross
Ross_McNeillAnyway back to one on the items on TA’s list.
No bias, it was the first one I looked at in detail since his reply.
B17 Canvey Point Essex.
This relates to an air to air on the 19th June 1944 between #44-6133 and #42-97942
Modern second rate publications state that #42-97942 crashed into the Thames off Canvey Point.
However if trouble is taken to look at Primary sources and double check them then it is clear that 42-97942 came down on land and 44-6133 crashed into the surf zone in amoungst the anti tank defences.
Subsequently the recovery was assigned to an RAF MU but in any case all trace would have been recovered when the beach defences were cleared post war.
A date and # would have at least allowed this one to move from the “I know of” to the “remains unlikely” spike.
Regards
Ross[ATTACH=CONFIG]217404[/ATTACH]
Ross_McNeillTonyT
Try googling Dive the World to see the scams, trolling, multiple personalities and lies that the now deceased owner passed on here.
Now consider if you wish to really wish us to love these.
Ross
Ross_McNeillTA – wrong end of the stick.
There is a vast difference in “an aircraft crashed in the vicinity” to “on this specific spot is the remains of X of the Y airforce lost on Z day”
Look back to your original post and the subsequent ones – they are all undated and un attributed losses – only the last one has any time and date stamp but even this gives a general area of Thames Estuary.
Listings such as these are similar to the buried spitfire rumour – unless it can be related to a specific find at a specific spot it remains rumour not fact.
What is not considered is any possible change to the wreckage ie inundation by sand, sweeping by trawler or eod, sports diver recovery, natural collapse etc.
Starting with a list of losses is like Schrödinger’s Cat ie at the present time a wreck may exist but equally it may not.
However starting with a list of wreckage visible today is evidence of a surviving Aircraft in the sea and fresh water.
Even the dive footage of the drone is better than a list from memory of something possibly somewhere.
So my intent was to show that the subject had been examined and assessed as to the extent of potential wreck sites and that every one chipping in with un attributed losses would not aid unless the thread took the form of attributed aircraft wrecks at sea/inland water ways.
Regards
Ross
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