[ATTACH=CONFIG]217380[/ATTACH]Not as exhibitor but possibly as paying punter.

I’m still sorting out the new workshop.

Tripping over Hurricane and Anson gear.

The Link has too many leaks in the current pneumatics to suck! so recover of all major bellow on going.

Only thing I’ve managed to put any recent time into is the long time works in progress Halifax Flight Engineer Panel from Cees. Even that is far from showing mother rather than F/E who twiddled it in service.

Regards
Ross

Hi Tony,

Panel is on Malcolm’s web site along with cockpit rails and side panels.

http://www.raf-surplus.co.uk/avro-lancaster-parts.php

Regards
Ross

Report just now on BBC News 24 (13:24 ish) on I player.

Confirms weather window for lift at 21:00 hrs today, to be covered live by news 24.

Ross

In that case it’s neither the Blenheim or Heinkel I’ve listed as these were off shore. Only the Hudson was in the surf line.

Heinkel Werk No.2632

SEPTEMBER 5TH. – MARGATE, KENT.
At about 3.30 P.M. a telephone message was received from the coastguard that an aeroplane had crashed into the sea about two hundred yards west of the Hook Beacon. A light S.S.E. wind was blowing, with a smooth sea. The motor life-boat J. B. Proudfoot, on temporary duty at the station, left at 3.35 P.M. The honorary secretary, Mr. A. C. Robinson, was on board. She found the wreckage of a German aeroplane, and brought it ashore for identification. – Rewards, £5 12s. 6d.

HERNE BAY, KENT.
At 3.30 in the afternoon of the 5th September, 1940, an aeroplane which was being chased by British aircraft was seen to crash 200 yards west of Margate Hook Beacon. The weather was fair. Three men went out in a motor boat, but only found oil coming to the surface. Margate life-boat also went out and picked up some wreckage. – Rewards, £1 2s. 6d. And 2s. 6d. For fuel used.

Blenheim L8679

“Aug 10th – Margate, Kent.
Just after midnight the officer in charge of troops on the jetty informed the coxswain that he could hear calls for help from the water. The night was very dark. An air raid was in progress and bombs were falling. The coxswain at once mustered his crew and the motor lifeboat ‘J B Proudfoot’ on temporary duty at the station, was launched at 00:25 am. Half a mile off shore the lifeboat found a British pilot who was nearing collapse, but was kept afloat by his lifebelt. She picked him up, and he was given rum and every attention. The lifeboat landed him at 00:45 am and put out for another search. She found nothing and was rehoused at 01:30 am.
Rewards: £11 5s.”

(Source RNLI Records of Service 1939-46)

Ross

Andy,

Do not get fixated on the idea that something placed on the top of the Goodwin Sands will remain both in the same location and the same relative height/depth.

The sands are moving in a similar manner to the sand dunes in the sahara and those above sea level on the UK coast.

The Goodwins are known as ship swallowers for the very reason that a ship wreck soon sinks into the fluidised sand bed just like quick sand and also sand ridge movement can turn a location into either shallows or 10 mtr constant depth within a few years.

It is the movement of the sand that has currently uncovered the aircraft and will if given time engulf then with 5 or 10 mtr covering in a few decades.

The reason that the original dive team is in the area and looking at wrecks uncovered by movement is that they are the licencee working on the Stirling Castle which sank in 1703.

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/content/imported-docs/p-t/mgmtplan-stirlingcastlevfinal.pdf

Within the report is a good example of how the sand has altered over this wreck from shallows to sink a man-o-war to 12 metre of constant depth below lowest astronomical tide.

“The Goodwin Sands consists of approximately 25 metres of fine sand resting on an Upper Chalk platform (British Geological Survey, Thames Estuary Sheet 51°N-00°, 1:250 000 Series). The Stirling Castle lies at a charted depth of 12.10m within a shallow gully in an area that had previously been a level plateau of sand near the North Sand Head, Goodwin Knoll. The site consists of fine sand with gravelly sand forming the base of the gully.

As a result of sand wave migration across North Goodwin, the wreck was discovered in 1979 by recreational divers. Archaeological deposits consist of the partially intact hull and internal structure of the Stirling Castle, with the
bow lying to the west. The gun deck appears to survive, with debris from the upper deck and forecastle and quarterdecks collapsed upon it. The orlop deck is assumed to survive below it and the rudder survives in situ. Currently, archaeological material is partially covered by a sand overburden (Wessex Archaeology 2006).”

It is quite possible for the Dornier to have crashed into shallows in 1940 and now be some depth below that level now.

It is the localised sand movement that has created this anomaly of preservation for the variety wrecks from 1703 to 1940.

Regards
Ross

Andy is correct in that the identity and the method of arrival on the bottom are all currently supposition.

The BBC reporter admits that the computer animation was one of the possible senarios in his live report.

Close by is a deeper wreck where the back was broken either in the crash or after settling. The tail is upright but the fwd fuselage is upside down. This suggests that if any depth of water was present then water into the fwd fuselage will result in the engine weight pulling the aircraft down nose first after settling.

However this wreck has the radio mast being pushed vertically back into the fuselage like a spear suggesting that the weight of the aircraft pushed it down into the sand without any lateral movement.

The similarities suggest a common resultant movement between the two wrecks on sinking and settling.

Like any accident without witness evidence all is supposition until the remains can be examined in detail.

So take the news reports as just “news reports” and await the AIB style report for facts.

Regards
Ross

“Yet more scrap heading to Hendon!”
The scrap is going to Cosford and all the aircraft at Hendon are just scrap wood, metal and fabric so it will fit right in with the collection (they have no flyers).

” If they’re lucky it’ll still be in one piece by the time it gets there.”
More than luck, it’s planned to place the conserved final article there so it will be in one piece by planning.

” Didn’t 2 of the crew perish in the crash?”
The identity is suggested as probably but even the probable identity has the two missing crew with known graves in the UK and Holland.

” If so, then why is this not a war grave?”
No such thing as a war grave aircraft in law so no it’s not. It can only be designated as either a controlled or protected place under the Military Remains Act.

Ross

Post #6 on this thread

http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?1478-Unaccounted-airmen-4-10-1940

The crew of two, Sqn Ldr Eberhardt and LAC Fleming, killed in Wallace K6030.

Regards
Ross