Ross_McNeillJust looking at eliminating the outside chance of the only feasible Warwick loss off the South coast.
At the moment lots going against it and only location going for it.
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillHi Martin B,
Is the following position close to where the prop was caught?
Latitude: 50 35 06.0 N,
Longitude: 002 47 30.0 W
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillHi Shortsbro,
I think this is the man you are interested in:
Thomson, Arthur Ashford Benjamin
S/L 01 Nov 1919
W/C 01 Jan 1929
G/C 01 July 1934
AC 01 Jan 1938
Undertook a specialist armament course.
MC, AFC
Source: Air Force Lists (various 1918 to 1940)
Using A A B Thomson on Google bring up various links to his MC and AFC and the following page from Malcolms excellent site
Ross_McNeillThe text and photos of the 109 have been copied verbatim from the 1995 “Diving Guide to The Mediterranean Wrecks” by Kurt Amsler, Andrea Ghisotti, Roberto Rinaldi, Egidio Trainito. ISBN 1-85310-706-9
I see no credit to the Copyright holders on the site linked.
Ross
Ross_McNeillHi Chris,
There is only one Tomlin in the pre War Air Force Lists:
Brian Stirling Tomlin
37486
Acting P/O 23/12/35
P/O 28/10/36
F/O 28/05/38
F/L 28/05/40
DFC Gazetted 17/05/40
I strongly suspect that this is your man.
No casualty record in the CWGC database.
Also a discussion on another board
http://www.rafcommands.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=6336&forum=DCForumID6&archive=yes
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillOk..
First to find out if he survived the War.
Easiest way is to do this is to check the online database of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.
In this case there is no record of E J Woodhead as a casualty.
Next try is to see if he was listed as a European PoW
http://www.rafcommands.com/Air%20Force%20PoWs/RAF%20POWs%20Index.html
No E J but there is a listing for J. The service number from the Form 1180 will eliminate this (J E was a Sgt from No.12 Sqn, Wellington W5395 on 04/42)
Next try the Online London Gazette for promotions and awards.
No DFC or DFM listed so unlikely to have been a long serving pilot.
Possible Far East PoW but you would need to consult Les Stubbs book for a listing.
Next paper source is the Royal Air Force Retired List (at the National Archives, Kew) on the outside chance that he was an officer.
Kew is also the place for the MU records.
Other sources are the archives of the local police force as the Station Occurance Books and Telephone Logs may survive giving the details required to be logged by local civil defence.
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillHi,
John Terraine in The Right of the Line gives:
‘From first to last, 1939-45, the Royal Air Force lost 70,253 officers, NCOs and airmen killed or missing on operations, the overwhelming majority of them being aircrew. This was the price of its victory, and of it by far the largest share fell to Bomber Command between Sept 1939 and May 1945: 47,268. This great number is the grim total of those lost on operations; it was the unique hazard of the airman’s trade that a further 8,305 Bomber Command aircrew lost their lives in non-operational flying – training or accident. In addition, 1,570 ground crew (RAF and WAAF) were killed or lost their lives from other causes during that period, making a full total of 57,143.’
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillHi Cliff,
Doppler Ground Speed and Air Miles indicator.
I’ll need to look at my APs tonight for a type number but I’m sure it is not Type 72.
Possibly Type 70
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillJames & Moggy,
Be slow to cast scorn over the payments.
The RNLI committee decided at the start of the war that it would pay any rescue at sea carried out by non RNLI crews at the same rate as the crews they employed.
So rather than a “scrooge” attitude on the part of the RNLI it was a magnificent gesture from an organisation solely funded by public donations.
This reward situation lasted from 1939 to 1946 and all services were recorded at the time then published in 1946 as a monetary account of expenditure.
In a large number of cases the recipents of the reward returned it as a donation.
The payments were also made regardless of result and nationality of downed crew as in this service in 1939 to a Heinkel He 111 of Stab/KG26:
NOV. 29TH. – AMBLE, NORTHUMBER-LAND.
A German aeroplane was reported to have come down into the sea five miles
east of the harbour and the life-boat searched a wide area, but could find nothing. The honorary secretary of the station, the Rev. J. M. Grey, went out with the life-boat.-Rewards, £5 14s.
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillThe current version (post Tans c/w HSI) is still nailed into position on the 3 birds at Kemble and probably the gate guard.
There were two previous versions (pre Tans and post Tans c/w zero reader) but I have not seen any on the market yet.
175 has a pre Tans fitted but it should be a post Tans c/w zero reader and I’m looking at cutting new metal next year if an example does not surface.
I intend to post a page showing the upgrades in Pilot and Nav compartment ready for the Airfix release at the end of the year.
You could always tuck away at T.22 panel for when you finish your TT.18
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillHi Cliff,
Take your pick, all are valid for the Canberra, just depends on Mod state.
6A/1043704 Clock, Fluorescent, /Mk.5A
6A/4330915 Clock, Fluorescent, /Mk.4
6A/4333178 Clock, Fluorescent, /Mk.4B
6A/1043704 Clock, Fluorescent, /Mk.5A
6A/4332876 Clock, Fluorescent, /Mk.5/LCD
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillHi James,
The Coastal Command Group ORBs give a daily summary which includes the actual weather for the day and area.
Have a look at the relevant pages from Kew or try the (transport?) Group ORB for the airman.
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillFor the PR.9:
I’ll list the components as given so you can calculate your transport split
Tail Section.
Rear Fuselage 19’1″ x 6’0″ x 8’0″ – 645 lb tare
Tail Plane 26’6″ x 8’o” x 1’9″ – 522 lb tare
Elevator 14’0″ x 4’9″ x 1’6″ – 114 lb tare
Fin 6’4″ x 7’3″ x 1’6″ – 96 lb tare
Rudder 7’1″ x 7’1″ x 1″4″ – 142 lb tare
Elevator tab 5’7″ x 0’9″ x 0’3″ – 7 lb tare
Rear fairing 5’0″ x 2’6″ x 3’0″ – 22 lb tare
Centre Section (no cockpit included).
(Dimensions of 9 which is about 6′ longer than 7)
Centre Fuselage 27’6″ x 7’8″ x 7’0″ – 2190 lb tare
Flare bay door 11’4″ x 3’3″ x 2’2″ – 103 lb tare
Belly tank 9’6″ x 6’0″ x 2’6″ – 410 lb tare
Cockpit section – in case it has to be removed from centre section.
Nose 5’0″ x 4’2″ x 4’2″ – 192 lb tare
Frangible hatch 4’3″ x 3’7″ x 0’8″ – 40 lb tare
Front fuselage 12’6″ x 6’6″ x 8’6″ – 1010 lb tare
Canopy 5’7″ x 2’10” x 2’1″ – 204 lb tare
Nose u/c jack 2’2″ x 0’5″ x 0’5″ – 8lb tare
Nose u/c radius rod 3’11” x 0’4″ x 0’8″ – 29 lb tare
Nose u/c wheel and leg 2’2″ x 1’7″ x 3’7″ – 260 lb tare
Nose u/c door 4’2″ x 0’3″ x 1’5″ – 12 lb tare
Wings – can they be removed with the engines in situ (not a lift shown in AP).
Starboard – Port is same again
fuel tank 11’4″ x 7’1″ x 2’3″ – 428 lb tare
Main plane 31’0″ x 22’3″ x 4’3″ – 2352 lb tare
Inboard flap 5’8″ x 2’6″ x 0’6″ – 21 lb tare
Outboard flap 9’0″ x 2’9″ x 0’6″ – 31 lb
Aileron 12’8″ x 4’2″ x 0’9″ – 72 lb tare
Wing tip 5’1″ x 0’8″ x 0’6″ – 4 lb tare
Wing tip tank 14’7″ x 1’11” x 1’10” – 122 lb tare
Main u/c wheel and leg 3’11” x 2’1″ x 6’3″ – 694 lb tare
Main u/c side stay 2’9″ x 0’8″ x 0’8″ – 36 lb tare
Main u/c jack 2’0″ x 0’5″ x 0’7″ – 16 lb tare
Avon 109 Engine
Details for 206
Engine front cowl 5’7″ x 4’0″ x 3’11” – 120 lb tare
Engine change unit 11’0″ x 3’6″ x 3’6″ – 2827 lb tare
Engine top rear cowling 5’5″ x 4’0″ x 1’4″ – 29 lb tare
Jet pipe 13’3″ x 2’9″ x 2’9″ – 247 lb tare
Jet pipe cowling 3’8″ x 2’8″ x 2’8″ – 29 lb tare
Engine bottom rear cowling 5’10” x 4’0″ x 1’4″ – 45 lb tare
Service panel 2’2″ x 4’2″ x 1’9″ – 18 lb tare
Regards
Ross
Ross_McNeillYou have asked for where to look/who to ask for proof that an aircraft shown as Cat E on an 1180 is either still there or was salvaged at the time:
Primary sources in the archives only show a snapshot giving the extent of knowledge at the time of their creation.
Form 540 and 541 give the information known at squadron/unit level in the previous month, later 540/541s may give updates but the previous pages are not altered to suit.
Form 78 are generally correct only suffering from occassional clerical errors which were usually picked up with periodic audits.
Form 1180 were generated within a few weeks of the accident. With the exception of the Court of Inquiry findings they were not usually updated from the initial accident category. This is why the change of engine category for P8187 is so significant. Compare with the Loch Leven Hurricanes.
All these documents and more from the Group/Station/MU/RSU ORBS as well as public bodies such as the Police and RNLI, over a large timespan, need all to be used to correlate what actually happened to an aircraft and whether or not it is still present.
Taking Sunderland W3995 for example.
Form 78 states SOC Cat E
Form 1180 states Cat E, FA, hit shoal. No loss of life.
No.228 Sqn ORBS states Ran aground on Troblesome Rocks, Lough Erne. Aircraft sank during salvage operations.
Castle Archdale ORB states salvage barge sank during salvage operations when aircraft capsized.
Police records state a civilian worker killed when salvage barge lost.
Castle Archdale ORB states a few months later that main wreckage cleared by grappling but operations stopped when depth charge hooked.
MU ORBs record tasking of clearance to local hard hat commercial diver and site cleared.
The time span in the documents for the above is about 1 year. The 1180 says it should still be there but the documents taken as a whole suggest only fragments for this particular aircraft.
Ross
Ross_McNeillI would check the local MU and RSU Orbs first.
Although the airframe is shown on the 1180 as Cat.E – the engine seems to have been subject to a re-cat from E to C or vice versa.
Mooring teams from flying boat units and were also used to carry out salvage.
Ross
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