GeforceRE: You’ve mistaken Arthur….
Quick reply :
Vortex, we don’t question your morals, and we are the first ones to admit we also made mistakes in the past. But what disturbs us the most is that the US makes a difference between countries like Saudi Arabia calling them allies and friends of peace and Iran which is a part of the axis of evil. Everyone will tell you that Iran is a far more democratic and progressive country than SA, still the US sees no difference between them. Europe does, although they are also greedy, as much as the Americans, they don’t judge nations because they are not westernised or not willing to coöperate. The EU has asked Iran to join the coalition of terror, they refused, which I can understand. But at the same time, Europe continues trade with Iran and does not threaten it. The US judges which countries are right and wrong, based on what criteria? It’s safe to say Europe doesn’t. We try to keep politics and economy seperrated.
GeforceRE: There is no such thing as war on terrorism
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 18-06-02 AT 06:40 PM (GMT)]Com’on Sauron, what was the real danger until 1939, when Germany invaded Poland? Communism. France and UK wanted to use Germany and Italy so they could defeat communism, which was THE bad guy back then. And they did so, almost. If nazism would have been pure evil in the eyes of the French, British and American leaders, do you think they would let Germany re-arms itself, occupy parts of the Rhein-land, anschluss of Austria, Czechia etc????? It’s only after Germany invaded Poland the ‘allies’ took actions (even than it took more than a year), but it was already too late. Germany invaded France and you know the end of the story … Saying that European leaders were to stupid to see the danger coming is not true, they wanted to take this opportunity to get rid of the other, more dangerous evil: COMMUNISM.
And therefor so many people – even after Germany invaded France, Holland and Belgium – were convinced the Russians were still the only enemy and thus fought alongside with the waffenSS on the east-front. This has nothing to do with stupidity, collaboration, it’s just simple technics of manipulation.
GeforceRE: There is no such thing as war on terrorism
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 18-06-02 AT 06:40 PM (GMT)]Com’on Sauron, what was the real danger until 1939, when Germany invaded Poland? Communism. France and UK wanted to use Germany and Italy so they could defeat communism, which was THE bad guy back then. And they did so, almost. If nazism would have been pure evil in the eyes of the French, British and American leaders, do you think they would let Germany re-arms itself, occupy parts of the Rhein-land, anschluss of Austria, Czechia etc????? It’s only after Germany invaded Poland the ‘allies’ took actions (even than it took more than a year), but it was already too late. Germany invaded France and you know the end of the story … Saying that European leaders were to stupid to see the danger coming is not true, they wanted to take this opportunity to get rid of the other, more dangerous evil: COMMUNISM.
And therefor so many people – even after Germany invaded France, Holland and Belgium – were convinced the Russians were still the only enemy and thus fought alongside with the waffenSS on the east-front. This has nothing to do with stupidity, collaboration, it’s just simple technics of manipulation.
GeforceRE: There is no such thing as war on terrorism
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 18-06-02 AT 06:32 PM (GMT)]>So actually Al Qaida are the good guys now? And no muslim
>extremists perpetrate horrific acts of violence. Hmm,
>interesting view.
Again ripping out of context what I’ve meant. Why don’t you read my whole post and not simply one sentence on which you can reply with such a poor answer like “now you’re saying Al Qaida are the good guys?”. What I meant – which you all know cause you are all intelligent people I asume – is that getting all of your people behind one ‘evil’ is not a good thing. It creates instability, not immediatelly, but after a longer period. The Germans were not the good guys, and they weren’t always the bad either. War you can not simplify by saying it is good or bad/Yin and Yang. You can say : gee this sandwich tastes bad (In fact not, because others might like it). A leader who makes his own people afraid is a bad leader, that’s all what I meant.
If you read all of it, you would also have seen that I said 911 was barbaric, not more or not less than dropping napalm over Vietnamese villages full of civilians, or looking at my own nation’s history (it’s not always the Americans), using millions of people as slaves of our beloved King.
And Seahawk, which nations are suffering the most from terrorism. The West? Unlikely, nations like Columbia (FARC), India, Israel (ok is a country from the west), Sri Lanka, these are the ones that can say that live under the daily threat of terrorism. It’s bad what happened to those German tourists in Tunesia, there’s no doubt about that. But to say as a German you should be afraid to go out on the streets, that’s exaggerated. And that’s exactly what Bush (and so many with him) like us to believe. That it is unsafe to go out. Hell no, on a nice evening like this, I can go outside, do whatever I want, and the only bad thing that can happen to me is that 10-ton truck will drive over me :D. The feeling of unsafety is such a cheap propaganda, this is how extreme right wins so many votes.
GeforceRE: There is no such thing as war on terrorism
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 18-06-02 AT 06:32 PM (GMT)]>So actually Al Qaida are the good guys now? And no muslim
>extremists perpetrate horrific acts of violence. Hmm,
>interesting view.
Again ripping out of context what I’ve meant. Why don’t you read my whole post and not simply one sentence on which you can reply with such a poor answer like “now you’re saying Al Qaida are the good guys?”. What I meant – which you all know cause you are all intelligent people I asume – is that getting all of your people behind one ‘evil’ is not a good thing. It creates instability, not immediatelly, but after a longer period. The Germans were not the good guys, and they weren’t always the bad either. War you can not simplify by saying it is good or bad/Yin and Yang. You can say : gee this sandwich tastes bad (In fact not, because others might like it). A leader who makes his own people afraid is a bad leader, that’s all what I meant.
If you read all of it, you would also have seen that I said 911 was barbaric, not more or not less than dropping napalm over Vietnamese villages full of civilians, or looking at my own nation’s history (it’s not always the Americans), using millions of people as slaves of our beloved King.
And Seahawk, which nations are suffering the most from terrorism. The West? Unlikely, nations like Columbia (FARC), India, Israel (ok is a country from the west), Sri Lanka, these are the ones that can say that live under the daily threat of terrorism. It’s bad what happened to those German tourists in Tunesia, there’s no doubt about that. But to say as a German you should be afraid to go out on the streets, that’s exaggerated. And that’s exactly what Bush (and so many with him) like us to believe. That it is unsafe to go out. Hell no, on a nice evening like this, I can go outside, do whatever I want, and the only bad thing that can happen to me is that 10-ton truck will drive over me :D. The feeling of unsafety is such a cheap propaganda, this is how extreme right wins so many votes.
GeforceRE: There is no such thing as war on terrorism
The EU has just announced that it will put the “Front of free palestina” and “Al Aqsa” on its list of terror organisations, a big step if you know that ARAFAT has close relations with these mouvements. On the other hand, the EU also made a biliteral trade deal with Iran.
The problem is that many European countries (both gov’ts and people) are confronted daily with Bush’s stupid speeches, controversial statements … For the French this is of no problem, they will pretend like they heard nothing, but for the Brits who are so closely related to the Americans, this is a big concern.
The fight against terror and the “coalition of good vs evil” reminds me of the 1930’s in Europe, when so many political parties (not only the Nazi’s, but also small mouvements like VNV, Rexists) could convince people to fight a holy war against bolsjevism. This new evil aka Islam terror resembles a lot to bolsjevism in means that it was hated and feared by the big public. Many people fighting with the Nazi’s only found out after the war that it was the Nazi’s who were the pure evil.
GeforceRE: There is no such thing as war on terrorism
The EU has just announced that it will put the “Front of free palestina” and “Al Aqsa” on its list of terror organisations, a big step if you know that ARAFAT has close relations with these mouvements. On the other hand, the EU also made a biliteral trade deal with Iran.
The problem is that many European countries (both gov’ts and people) are confronted daily with Bush’s stupid speeches, controversial statements … For the French this is of no problem, they will pretend like they heard nothing, but for the Brits who are so closely related to the Americans, this is a big concern.
The fight against terror and the “coalition of good vs evil” reminds me of the 1930’s in Europe, when so many political parties (not only the Nazi’s, but also small mouvements like VNV, Rexists) could convince people to fight a holy war against bolsjevism. This new evil aka Islam terror resembles a lot to bolsjevism in means that it was hated and feared by the big public. Many people fighting with the Nazi’s only found out after the war that it was the Nazi’s who were the pure evil.
GeforceThere is no such thing as war on terrorism
You can bomb a country back to the stone-age, but I don’t believe you can root out terrorism with military force. A war on terrorism can’t be finished in a couple of weeks, months or even years. So what can you do about it? Just wait and see who’ll strike the US today? Ofcourse not, but intelligence is important, having lots of allies. It’s not a popularity contest, but in some cases, you would better keep your mouth shut instead of saying as controversial as the axis of evil.
And Keltic is right; when did the US supported Spain in its ‘fight’ against ETA, when did they supported Japan when they were attacked by sarin gas in the subway’s of Tokyo? Belgium has also been threatened a couple of times by terrorists (GIA-Ageria), last time in 1998, because we refused to release GIA-terrorists. Back then, the French gave us their full support, but the US??? They simply didn’t care. Now they want us to get behind them simply because they were under attack? Hypocrisy …
Ohh and Seahawk, I’m still convinced this was an attack on the US rather than on the western world. If you really want to hurt the ‘west’ (if there’s such a thing as the west), than it would be better to attack a football stadium in Tokyo. But that doesn’t change the fact that 911 was barbaric!
GeforceThere is no such thing as war on terrorism
You can bomb a country back to the stone-age, but I don’t believe you can root out terrorism with military force. A war on terrorism can’t be finished in a couple of weeks, months or even years. So what can you do about it? Just wait and see who’ll strike the US today? Ofcourse not, but intelligence is important, having lots of allies. It’s not a popularity contest, but in some cases, you would better keep your mouth shut instead of saying as controversial as the axis of evil.
And Keltic is right; when did the US supported Spain in its ‘fight’ against ETA, when did they supported Japan when they were attacked by sarin gas in the subway’s of Tokyo? Belgium has also been threatened a couple of times by terrorists (GIA-Ageria), last time in 1998, because we refused to release GIA-terrorists. Back then, the French gave us their full support, but the US??? They simply didn’t care. Now they want us to get behind them simply because they were under attack? Hypocrisy …
Ohh and Seahawk, I’m still convinced this was an attack on the US rather than on the western world. If you really want to hurt the ‘west’ (if there’s such a thing as the west), than it would be better to attack a football stadium in Tokyo. But that doesn’t change the fact that 911 was barbaric!
GeforceRE: your favourite cities
Here are my favourites.
Antwerp
Cape Town
Amsterdam
Paris
London
Madrid
Florence
GeforceRE: your favourite cities
Here are my favourites.
Antwerp
Cape Town
Amsterdam
Paris
London
Madrid
Florence
GeforceRE: Political leaders
Well, you’re right. The way Belgium left the Congo was disorderly, leaving behind a civil war, no infrastructure (rebel forces burned down everything). And ofcourse Belgium (together with the CIA) still did some nasty jobs after the independence of Congo like killing Lumumba, and also giving info to the CIA about Che Guevare (who was in Congo at that time).
GeforceRE: Political leaders
Well, you’re right. The way Belgium left the Congo was disorderly, leaving behind a civil war, no infrastructure (rebel forces burned down everything). And ofcourse Belgium (together with the CIA) still did some nasty jobs after the independence of Congo like killing Lumumba, and also giving info to the CIA about Che Guevare (who was in Congo at that time).
GeforceAmerica
America going to the quarter-finals. Well I’ll be damned … Maybe from now on soccer will be called football 😀 A question to the Americans. You always thought Soccer was a boring game, but now you made it to be in the top-8 of the best soccer-teams, how’s the big public looking at that.
GeforceAmerica
America going to the quarter-finals. Well I’ll be damned … Maybe from now on soccer will be called football 😀 A question to the Americans. You always thought Soccer was a boring game, but now you made it to be in the top-8 of the best soccer-teams, how’s the big public looking at that.
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