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Smith

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Viewing 15 posts - 691 through 705 (of 1,284 total)
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  • in reply to: Most overrated bombers? #1416625
    Smith
    Participant

    Not a winnable argument one way or the other this. But to my mind there are four measures …
    – Striking power (factors: ability to lift weight and bomb storage)
    – Relative loss rate (factors: speed, altitude, defensive armament and construction)
    – Relative fatality rate (factors: capacity to fly damaged, ease of exit)
    – Usability (factors: ease/cost of construction, repair/maintenance, flight characteristics)

    And it’s hard to compare night with day although some observations can be made.
    Both UK and US bombers initially operated on the popular pre-war doctrine “the bomber will always get through” and initial unescorted daylight operations were found to be disastrous. The UK decided to fly at night (and thus reduce chances of being hit) whilst the US decided to focus on defensive firepower and tactics and introduce long-range escorts. The preferred aircraft types were aligned with these perspectives, the UK preferring strike power over defence and the US vice versa.

    Here’s my attempt to rate the later UK night bombers:
    LANCASTER – heaviest strike power bar none, lower loss rate than fellow heavies o/a altitude (HALIFAX III excepted), extremely fatal if hit (very little armour, quick to burn and lose ability to fly) most Lancs lost (half the 7000 built) took all their crew with them, usability good (very serviceable and easy to fly)
    MOSSIE – low strike power, minimal loss rate (speed and altitude), don’t know re. fatality rate (but I’ve read lots of stories of both crew dying – did they disintegrate easily?), don’t know re construction and maintenance but believe it was a delight to fly
    HALIFAX – good strike power (not far off “normal” Lanc load), high loss rate in early examples because of ceiling (rectified by the Herc powered MkIII – photo in a post above), good/low fatality rate (relatively sturdy and easy to exit – pilot excepted), construction and maintenance I cannot comment on, flyability I’ve heard that it was less refined than the Lanc but once adapted to liked by airmen who’d flown both
    STIRLING – low strike power (bomb-bay design), high loss rate (the first of the heavies, its ceiling affected by wing-span constraints as noted above), good survivability rate, again don’t know re construction, maintenance etc.

    And I’m sorry but I don’t feel confident to comment to any great degree re. the US bombers except for a few passing observations. The B17 was rugged and it took a lot to knock it out of the sky, it was also very survivable (well over 50% survival rate of crews shot down) but it’s bomb load was limited as others have noted. Interestingly the B26 carried the same bomb-load (4000lbs) and had a lower overall loss-rate than the B17. The B24 I know next to nothing about, ungainly looking but perhaps someone could comment re. relative loss rates etc.

    Back to the UK. As I understand it (please correct me if wrong) the Lanc was preferred for (a) its striking power (b) it’s loss rate and (c) the logic of deploying one common aircraft to the greatest extent possible (training, maintenance, etc., etc.). Its relative fatality rate is very rarely mentioned.

    As to which one, if any, is over-rated? None of them by those in the know. Neither the various commands then, nor I trust this forum now, would argue that the war was won by any one of these aircraft, or that it would have been lost without it. That said, I have from time to time heard similar qualities attributed to the Lancaster. 😉

    in reply to: 366th bomb squadron, Chevelston England april 1944 #1418503
    Smith
    Participant

    No problem DHL. You’ll find if you work your way back up that link that you can access the entire WWII USAAF chronology. Dry but fascinating and a great resource.

    I am surprised that no-one’s commented re. Roger Freeman’s Might Eighth War Diaries for you yet – I’m pretty sure there are persons here with it on their shelves.

    in reply to: General Discussion #393404
    Smith
    Participant

    Erin – I’m can’t promise anything but your idea’s good – what’s your timeline?

    in reply to: New Zealand…..? #1952966
    Smith
    Participant

    Erin – I’m can’t promise anything but your idea’s good – what’s your timeline?

    in reply to: Most Underrated WWII Fighter #1420502
    Smith
    Participant

    Ah yes, the Merlin. Was it really that significant? I mean, how would the BoB have gone without it? Alright I guess, given Sir Keith Park was on the job. :rolleyes:

    Really you guys – do you have to be within 3 paces before you can spot irony? JDK, your point was about parochialism so I interjected a quick jest re. Sir Keith Park. There’s a nice green sward in Auckland named after him – the Keith Park Park I presume. 😎

    in reply to: ANZAC Day. #1420508
    Smith
    Participant

    Indeed.

    Erin, ANZAC Day commemorates the date of the landing (in 1915) of the Australia and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZAC) who along with many others (see JDKs post above) were sent under and by English command to secure and thereby cut-off the Dardanelles in WWI. I’m far from up on the strategy, someone here can contribute that I’m sure.

    The point is that for us this was a defining moment. ANZAC troops (and the others, and the Turkish defenders) suffered significant casualties and the whole thing was doomed from the start. Many of the ANZACs after being withdrawn went on to serve in France. The memory is of gallantly facing hopeless odds, perseverance, supporting your mates, gallantry and self-sacrifice, and the futility and waste of war.

    For some reason over and above the other horrors and events of WWI (and WWII), this campaign, location and date has become the point of focus and remembrance for Aussies and Kiwis – and it is a sign of great significance to both NZ and AU of our bonding together in adversity.

    cheers D

    in reply to: Most Underrated WWII Fighter #1420895
    Smith
    Participant

    Ah yes, the Merlin. Was it really that significant? I mean, how would the BoB have gone without it? Alright I guess, given Sir Keith Park was on the job. :rolleyes:

    in reply to: Bbmf #1420972
    Smith
    Participant

    So in the fullness of (a very full thing) the BBMF should operate BoB aircraft yes?

    Spitfire & Hurricane and maybe Defiant, 109E and 110C and HE111 and Do17 – maybe even some of those Italian things that put in a brief visit.

    But certainly not a 190 or a Lanc or a late model PR Spit or …

    So what is this BBMF then? The RAFMF as Snaps suggests? Thing is of course that what it has and displays are the icons of the UK experience of WWII in the air. And damn fine icons they are too.

    in reply to: General Discussion #394556
    Smith
    Participant

    A few years ago in Melbourne, Air New Zealand got on board with the accent thing in their advertising. Trams started appearing with “sucks trups daily” and the like on them. Got a very positive response.

    It’s (eet’s / ut’s) interesting how obvious the accents are when you live with both for longish periods of time – rather like spotting the Californian and the Canadian – hard for an outsider initially – then you get it.

    But there’s also a point of cross-over. The urban, and especially northern urban (ie. Auckland and Wellington) accent is more-or-less identical to the urban Victorian (ie. Melburnian) accent. The “i” is a little softer in Melbourne, but only a touch. Many TV adverts are made here (NZ) or in Victoria and show up on both country’s TV screens – crossover products like cars etc.

    Where the accents diverge markedly is Southern NZ country accent (very broad showing the Scottish background I guess) vs Sydney (Seed-knee) which is very ‘eee’.

    in reply to: New Zealand…..? #1953401
    Smith
    Participant

    A few years ago in Melbourne, Air New Zealand got on board with the accent thing in their advertising. Trams started appearing with “sucks trups daily” and the like on them. Got a very positive response.

    It’s (eet’s / ut’s) interesting how obvious the accents are when you live with both for longish periods of time – rather like spotting the Californian and the Canadian – hard for an outsider initially – then you get it.

    But there’s also a point of cross-over. The urban, and especially northern urban (ie. Auckland and Wellington) accent is more-or-less identical to the urban Victorian (ie. Melburnian) accent. The “i” is a little softer in Melbourne, but only a touch. Many TV adverts are made here (NZ) or in Victoria and show up on both country’s TV screens – crossover products like cars etc.

    Where the accents diverge markedly is Southern NZ country accent (very broad showing the Scottish background I guess) vs Sydney (Seed-knee) which is very ‘eee’.

    in reply to: General Discussion #394703
    Smith
    Participant

    Dave’s just teasing you CB – the top one’s called “New” and the bottom one’s “Zealand” :rolleyes:

    in reply to: New Zealand…..? #1953442
    Smith
    Participant

    Dave’s just teasing you CB – the top one’s called “New” and the bottom one’s “Zealand” :rolleyes:

    in reply to: General Discussion #394734
    Smith
    Participant

    If you look at amap you can see the way they’ve pulled apart over time (all as part of the split from Gondwanaland). The SI fits in under the Western/LH part of the NI. And they continue to do – big fault line in there

    in reply to: New Zealand…..? #1953450
    Smith
    Participant

    If you look at amap you can see the way they’ve pulled apart over time (all as part of the split from Gondwanaland). The SI fits in under the Western/LH part of the NI. And they continue to do – big fault line in there

    in reply to: General Discussion #394762
    Smith
    Participant

    Nola Luxford

    New Zealand actress Nola Luxford was the driving force behind the ANZAC Club in NYC – this club entertained some 35,000 ANZAC (AUS and NZ) personnel in WWII.
    http://bulletin.ninemsn.com.au/bulletin/eddesk.nsf/printing/CAE478044D067BE7CA256A33001BCF23

    Dave FYI, the guy in the centre background of this photo (over Nola’s LH shoulder as you look at her, has a moustache) is my Uncle Lloyd English who subsequently died at Peenemunde!

Viewing 15 posts - 691 through 705 (of 1,284 total)