Actually there’s quite a few of them here and there ….
http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com/Luftwaffe/messerschmitt/me109.htm

That’s true enough … and Distiller, IIRC a feature of the K’s was the streamlining/removal of the bulges and they ended up looking rather like the F (which was a beautiful sleek thing).
Any F’s around these days he asked without Googling (please don’t shoot me, I’m only a keyboard player).

Thanks, that’s what i needed. Being reminded of the Wee Papa Girl Rappers 🙁

Who the hell are they? I take it I wouldn’t want to know?

Back to the question if we may … a few more facts IIRC

I’m reasonably sure I read somewhere (would have been in a book 😉 ) that nav lights were sometimes used when forming up, but I suggest that would have been in particular circumstances where perhaps the flight plan called for circling to gain height initially, more often than not as I understand it, the plan was simply takeoff and turn east.

As the war progressed nasty things called intruders began to be problematic – especially when landing. Airfields BTW were lit up for landing. This sentence applies equally to both sides.

The Bomber stream had at least three useful advantages that I can think about:
1. because close formation is impractical at night (to cut down collision danger)
2. as a means of mutual/self defence (not from firepower per USAAF but “hiding” in the many if you like) especially after window was used
3. as a means of concentrating the hitting power into waves – Deighton’s “Bomber” whilst fiction tells the story of the effect very well.
edit – see Damien’s post #27 below

And BTW there are accounts of night-fighters shooting down bombers cruising along with their nav lights on – either by mistake or malfunction – but either way fatal.

RAF heavies in daylight still used the Bomber Stream. Dave and others, get two almost identical books from any library (Dave you may find you could order them in?). Martin Middlebrook’s “Bomber Command War Diaries” and Roger Freeman’s “Mighty Eigth War DIaries”. Read them cover to cover, they are huge and fascinating – and at the end you will know all this stuff.

Lastly, the discussion above is an interesting issue – my recommendation is a bit of googling or library’ing first, but then as Dave says, the poster will often enough end up thinking “what about …?” And let’s face it, as we read various different perspectives on any given issue we all get to understand it a bit better. I’m happy to go about this topic (the Strategic Bombing Campaign) ad nauseam, it’s my pet project if you like. Please shut me up when necessary.

Yeah Dave

NIGHT – As you say, each aircraft navigated it’s own way to and from the target – and that was a major reason why accuracy was so appalling early on. Later various navigational aids (H2S and Gee – see that big lump under a Lancaster) were used and helped. But even so, accuracy remainded a problem right through and it was only on nights with some degree of moon and no clouds that accuracy was any good.

DAY – Memphis Belle was of course USAAF daylight stuff. There the aircraft flew in a tight box formation for mutual self defence. Read any Luftwaffe pilots memoirs of attacking USAAF daylight formations and you’ll understand how many guns were firing on attacking fighters. Trading a shot down fighter for a shot down heavy bomber was considered a very acceptable outcome.

Later came two solutions (1) head on attack, throttle back, 500kph closing speed, 1 second to aim and fire, then hit the throttle, half-roll and dive away and (2) the Sturm 190’s, heavily armoured, heavily armed, attack from behind, task for the day = take out one bomber by whatever means including ramming.

And yes still re. USAAF daylight, the lead aircraft in each (can’t remember the correct term – box?) would drop its bombs deliberately a touch before the target, typically with the bombs in a long line (ie. independently released a moment apart) with a smoke streamer on the first bomb or two – the following bombardiers hit their buttons when they saw this and their bombs were often salvoed (all released at same moment). If on target, the effect was a line of bombs creeping into the target and then a whole bunch landing (a bit spread out) smack on it.

edit – see here Dave for all sorts of stuff re. USAAF formations etc.
http://www.303rdbga.com/history.html

I fail to see what a persons gender or sexual preferences have to do with me or anyone else for that matter. More than that, I simply don’t understand why some people are concerned by others’ choices.

About the only real point of difference that I’ve ever found concerning is that by far the most dangerous people to go out on the town with are raging poofs. Talk about drink you under the table.

edits = fixed spelling – no change of message

Lost it – why do you ask? Do you enjoy gardening?