I could always live in hope a Stirling resides in some deep, cold, low-saline, low-oxygeniated water waiting to be discovered. Did they fly any missions over Norway perchance?
Utterly stunning work. Well done all involved.
Just a shame i was working when the aircraft was being lifted.
Thank you Paul for voicing your reasons.
My previous post was constructed when I was feeling less calm. You ‘leave that german plane where it belongs’ comment had tirggered me. I had seen similar opinions voiced elsewhere attached to comments voicing much broader xenophobia towards Germans in general. I had made an assumption. My apologies if my post had offended you or anyone else here.
However, though I can sympathise with your view -on my mother’s side my grandfather flew in bomber command and his wife was an ARP around Warwick. She could remember the bombing of Coventry- I will disagree with you. Preserving the past is important and no-one here will disagress. And that does mean perserving artifacts from both sides of a conflict. As the people who lived through WWII dwindle in number and the actual physical damage done by the war gets built over and smothered and forgotten we are going to have to reply on what we can preserve to tell the story of what happened in those dark days in a way that books and film just can’t quite convey.
I think it is important that this Dornier -or as much of it as possible- is recovered on just purely hostorical grounds and preserved in the city it (likely at some point in its service) attacked.
My my. lets only preserve the ‘good’ aspects of out history. Or whatever Paul178 deems to worthy of preservation and thus ‘good’.
Its not like the RAFM was given a list of wrecks of extinct, perfectly preserved RAF types ready for easy salvage and chose to waste money on a dreaded ‘Kraut’ aircraft instead. And of course when talking of history -and that is what preserving old artifacts like obsolete aircraft is all about, isn’t it(?)- its worth telling the story of both sides even if one side was utterly wrong.
World War II was over 68 years ago. Its long past the time to drop the hostility to the artifacts of old wars. Preserving them gives future generations a visceral contact with the mistakes of the past.
Wouldn’t a disclaimer along the lines of ‘These drawings are made avaliable for purely historical and technical interest and we take no responsibility for any attept to build a functioning aircraft from them’ be enough?
Disclaimers along similar ‘we show it but don’t try it’ lines are presented before shows like Mythbusters to keep the lawyers from the door so can anyone say why it should be different for historical aircraft plans?
In the second picture someone has cut out the Union Jack behind the cockpit window.
I am guessing that the second Electra has the same fate awaiting in the next few days. Its a shame.
It was 1956 at Bicester according to Discendo Duces (post #38) a year back.
Not seen a six-bladed wooden prop before :confused:. Any idea what plane it came from?
Google is your friend :eagerness::
http://www.imperial-airways.gb.com/booking-hall
First I heard of this museum and I wish it all the best. A pretty small museum though and in a pretty out of the way place; a few miles from Lyneham. Thank you for alerting the forum to this new museum.
Looks like Team Merlin, the ones trying to build a replica Handley page HP.42 are in on this as well: http://www.team-merlin.com/#!__imperial-42 This is good news as I thought that project had died a death.
Edit: News is a bit confusing. I assume that they are saying the museum will be open this July/August and that the July 2012 date underneath refers to the launch of the website.:confused:
Tony – I don’t think its an issue of recovering it -I think the issue has always been that the aircraft has been somewhat portrayed to maybe be a little better than it will be! Certainly the major benefactors of the project might not mind that but we have to be aware that it won’t be the preservationists criticising the project -more likely the media if
what comes up bears little resemblance to a Dornier !
But this is the risk with an such recovery. Such an argument would have been as valid prior to the recovery of the Mary Rose.
Anything is so much harder underwater and the true state of the Dornier won’t be accurately known until it is out of the water. Until there all that can be done is peering at the wreck through water of variable visibility and testing small samples brought up before that might or might not be representative of the state of the wreck as a whole. As for the media; yes a greater or lesser part will throw citicism at anything that does go wrong and that cannot be helped, but the RAFM has wisely steered away from the hype that set up the Burma spitfires for such a big fall.
As for the type itself -I would be more than happy if the aircraft was donated to the Germans. I feel they have the skills base – financing and far more interest in the type as a nation. It is not a key machine in the remit of the RAF museum.
This wreck would be relevent to most European countries as the Do-17Z was a widely used aircraft by the Axis. But as an aircraft that was used against us in ‘our darkest hour’ I would have throught that it would have particular significance to the UK and would be a fine addition to the other ‘enemy’ aircraft in the RAFM’s collection (that I will assume you will not argue are not in the museum’s remit too).
Is there a reason why you seem to be saying that there is no backlog of aircraft restorations in Germany, or that aircraft restoration skill in the UK is lacking?
In terms of restoration – it is a distraction in the workload of the RAFM . I don’t foresee a massive increase in funding to the RAFM so maybe another aircraft in the restoration queue at Cosford and Stafford will be pushed to one side – such as the Ventura which has been stored for thirty years already.
As for the Hampden -sadly after twenty years the odds of any surviving RAF aircrew seeing it on display at Hendon gets narrower by the day – whilst not a fault of the Dornier
is a clear indication of the level of workload and the timescale of getting things done.
I would much rather that an aircraft that is in safe hands already is held off for restoration by a few of years than one, a unique survivior of a once common type, is left out to be rusted, drag-netted and robbed to oblivion. And while I think that few if any here would disagree that the RAFM shouldn’t get extra funding -and any disscussion of where that should come from is for another day- there are more reasons than ‘we ran short of money’ for why a restoration like the hampden might be put on hold.
Will the FAAM ever get a Jestream T.2 to call their own?
Obviously I’ve not been keeping abreast of developments in that regard.
I would be of no help here as I don’t have any relevent information, but there are people here who can help.
An exact date for the crash and location would be very important to narrow down what aircraft was involved and the exact circumstances of it being shot down.
Did you daughter’s god father also include the markings on the aircraft in his painting. Those would be useful and of interest. And of course, if it is possible, and with the correct permission, I doubt anyone here would pass up a chance to see this painting, if you could upload it. Please.
P.S. – Its Bf 109 not Me 109 😉 That should keep the pedants at bay.
Yep. That is Wellington Mk.V W5797, one of only three built whith pressurised cockpit for high-altitude bombing. They were prototypes for the Mk.VI which looked very similar. (Some sources say) Only about 60 or so of those were built (and others only a handful)? and apart from some testing never really contributed to the war.
Thank you. I find pictures of these machines aren’t that common and that is a new one to me.
On a related note: Does anyone know how the rear turret was operated? Was there just some poor tailgunner out there in the cold because they don’t look like they are remotely controlled?
Might well be worth a look on here. http://www.channel4.com/programmes/4od
Would be helpful to know the name of the program.