Geoff_BWhat’s a Type 22 got to do with it ?, all the Batch III ships have the tall hanger and flight deck for Merlin & Sea King, its the Type 42’s that have the small Lynx sized hanger – anyway both classes are likely to disappear before any new Helicopters come on line.
Further to that point were talking Puma replacement here as they are unlikley to be refurbished again and should really be replaced, the Wildcat will carry on and replace Naval Lynx and that will fit in all our existing ships hangers.
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Geoff_BFor the answer to this look at the number of Greyhounds in the Aeronavale inventory.
There is little value in operating a permanent COD unit when there is only ever going to be one carrier on deployment. Better to fly what you want to take out to carrier to the nearest facility the USN use for their C-2’s and pay for the courier service…if there is a madly urgent requirement.
Actually Jonsey, the Brazilian Navy has just bought up the last Grumman Traders from the US to convert to turboprop as per their trackers and then use them as AEW and COD aircraft foe San Paulo !
Interesting solution, not sure how viable it really is though 😀
Geoff_BYour forgetting where the AW149 is to be built 😉
Augusta Westlands Yeovil factory is a prime Lib Dem area, Lord Paddys old seat. They will want to do some token plus points with all the negative cutbacks so expect a bit jam with all the medicine we have to swallow. Given that both Cameron & Fox lambasted the previous govt about the helicopter short fall, if they are cancelling the extra Chinooks and the Puma upgrade then expect a replacement and even better if its one made in the UK….
Geoff_BEver get the feeling that LM might be wise in switching one of the later BFs to STOVL testbed rather than BF-1 as she was the first proper F-35 produced and might have been better employed in the CTOL apect of the flight test program instead ?.
Geoff_BSo, with all that has gone before, that’s no further news to report on CVF construction then!!!!!
Bomberboy
Well were sort of in that news blackspot now regarding the actual construction. All the shipyards are now in action building their relevant blocks and we’ll really have to await the first of these mmain blocks to be completed and shipped to the assembly dock for there to be real news. They do appear to be progressing well, but it will be some time before the initial blocks are completed and assembly on the ship itself can commence.
Speaking of the CVF design, has anybody else noticed that there is no identifiable ships crane in the design to date. I know the ships boats are supposed to be located within the flight deck sponsons and are lowered when needed, but i thought carriers generally had a heavy duty crane in addition to the mobile unit on the flight deck ?
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Geoff_BSo, judging from Liam Fox’s letter we can expect:
Huge cuts in frigates/destroyers
ALL amphibious shipping gone ( the letter even mentions auxilliaries)
CVF in huge doubt with the PM not convinced.Coast Guard anyone?
All so we can remain in Afghanistan for a further 4 years for exactly what benefit?
It does make you wonder why would sacrifice our fighting ability at Sea and in the Air to protect a land campaign that we have already lost. We can’t send any more forces to make a real difference as the US have, and in the meantime our men and machineery and being wrung out just keeping the equilibrium.
Afghanistan & Iraq is why there is a deficit as the previous govt robbed the procurement budget to maintain the forces in these war zones as they set funding at a peacetime operational level without taking into account the long term wear & tear on kit !
Should this issue come to the fore next week at the Conservative Party conference, then DC is likley to find his party start asking some rather awkward questions, he may have securred the Govt for 5 years from being undermined but i’m not sure he’ll be able to do the same with his party should he stray too far from the path to appease the Liberal & Fiscal elements.
It could be an interesting month and may result in some ratehr heated opinions as to the quality of our MPs & Government as a result.
Geoff_BWell its the Conservative Party Conference next week, this is nice shot across the bows to let Cameron know the tories will only bend so far to accomodate the LibDems. In trying to appease the Liberal Minority he may well be putting the support of his Tory majority in doubt.
I suspect they will use next week to gauge feelings in the Party before making any final decisions on the SDSR, as its likley to turn into an political IED if they fudge it into a culling exercise.
Geoff_BWell its D-Day today the NSC are discussing the SDSR findings and their response will decide what strategy stance we intend to adopt, what we need to fulfil that role and what can culled that no longer meets that role too determine how much that will save as a result………..
Then is another 3 wks to plan the cuts and make sure things are preparred for the country to be told on October 22nd.
Geoff_BWell Taranis is basically putting the ucav technology from mantis & raven into a more advanced combat capable airframe now they have got the basics of the ucav flight control system sorted out.
As to what they create for an operational system will greatly depend on how Taranis performs and costs.
Regarding navalised UCAVs especially the automated ones i suspect they are awaiting on the X-47 program to do the ground breaking stuff and identify what pitfalls they need to be aware of. The carrier based operating environment is a whole new ball game to the UCAV community and they are being very cautious as a result. The motion of the ship and electromagnetic environment must make the business that much harder for them.
Geoff_BI suspect when they say capacity they mean it wont get a full F-35 Airgroup and will have to act as a more Ocean role than CVF role. The delay aspect could be to slow the build process slightly to allow them to switch to full CVF format should the economy allow for it at that later date. Anyway whichever F-35 variant is procurred its going to be years before we get a squadrons worth and even longer to get a single CVF airgroup let alone two !!.
As to the Helicoters, don’t forget this is still technically a review not just a budget slashing exercise (5% review-95% budget cut is probably the actual balance), the press are only picking up on the cuts as the moment, so expect a few piecemeal orders or requirements for new kit amongst all the purges. And considering the demographics of the current governement you can expect something heading Westlands way – they have made too many statements about the helicopter shortfall to get away with further cutting without replacement !
We’ll have to wait and see
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Geoff_BWell at least the Sun notes that we had Carriers in 82 and still have them now, so that the CVF is not some new fancy capability but a continuation of an existing one using two large hulls to replace 4 small ones. Likewise F-35 is a replacement for our Sea Harriers & Harriers. I suspect the Sun has listed whats available now less whats to be cut, so only 4 completed Type 45’s and possibly missing those Type 23s that are currently in refit which may account for their lower than expected numbers.
Anyway the press reports appear to be settling on what was predicted, with the loss of the LPD’s and older warships and the retention of the CVF and JCA program (although in much smaller numbers i suspect).
Now we await on how the RAF will actually be mauled by this review….
Geoff_BNot so.
Son of Taranis should be relatively small. A modest waist catapult (EMCAT?) should be enough. Keep the ski-jump, add arresting gear. The latter would not interfere with STOVL ops, & SoT would probably be launched & recovered relatively infrequently, causing few interruptions to F-35B operations.
Think about it, arrestor gear would disrupt STOVL/STOSRL ops, as the wires would be where the SRL would occur and where would you set them on the axial STOSRL parrallel flight deck or angled as per their intended location on the CATOBAR config, in which case they would need two different approach systems.
Geoff_BThanks Swerve, I was trying to understand if CVF could in the long run have CATOBAR UCAV’s operating long side the F-35B’s as the diagram of the CVF from Navy Matter’s seems to suggest it can (with runways set up for both CATOBAR and STOL operations), as I for one have argued that if you are going to get UCAV’s sooner rather than later then it was one of the few good arguments for CATOBAR and it looks like that the RN already have take account of it.
nah thats an old drawing, whilst Richard had been following the Carrier replacement program on his website since the mid 90’s, and had various contacts within the navy and the manufactureres, most of the illustrations provided were artwork or CGI. There are remarkably very few drawings of the actual design published. That drawing is from the PA2 artwork where Thales/DCN were comparing it to other contemporay carriers.
Richard or one of the contributors manually added where the CATOBAR elements were to illustrate that the shortened design limited operations to launch or recovery and not both.
The Selected 300m design could as the 20m section removed was at the fwd end of the hanger thus pushing the JBD of the fwd cat into the angled deck.
The same shortening also led to the split ski-jump rather than the full width one so as to reclaim fwd deck park space lost by the chop, and also the 2nd angled STOVL launch path so a pair of LCA could launch in quick succession as the skijump is no longer wide enough and start position on the shorter carrier is now where the aft island is located.
Geoff_BNo, it doesn’t need an arrestor or barrier system. In conditions where an arrestor or barrier system would be necessary, it can ditch what it must & land vertically.
Well it can’t carry an arrestor hook as the aft lower fuselage has the doors for the engine rotation.
However a barrier system may be prudent if doing the the rolling landings as may not always be able to engage STOVL mode in certain situations or to switch approach if already committed, and may not be able to bolt for a 2nd attempt.
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Geoff_BI know the headlines are on whats due to be cut, what’s safe but i wonder if anything new is also planned to spin out that its a ‘Strategy review rather than a cost cutting exercise’.
The cutting back on the Chinooks, the cancellation of the Puma upgrade and the withdrawal of the Sea Kings all cuts, but is anybody else wondering if they are lining up something for Augusta Westland when you consider where the factory is loacted (a strong Lib Dem area). I know they were miffed when the order for Chinooks went in without having a chance to tender for the lift role.
Also with the purging of the older fleet, are they going to look at pushing the Type 26 schedule up, or looking at a new patrol frigate program to replace these lost hulls.
Yes i know there is no money, but these are politicians and afterall cameron & fox both highlighted the Helicopter shortfall and warship numbers, they will be mauled in the press and in the house unless they have some positives they can use to counteract the effects of the cutting.
Just an observation of course but you know how these things work.
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