You missed my point Sens. People are calling for the immediate cancellation of the F-35 when the plane is replacing 3 types in many nations. No one has even dared to address how canceling the 100 mill F-35 to buy the 100 million F-15Se will work out.
F-15 SE
Role Multi-role fighter
Manufacturer Boeing IDS
First flight 8 July 2010[1]
Status In development
Number built 1[1]
Unit cost F-15SE: US$100 million (planned average cost, 2009)[2]
Developed from F-15E Strike Eagle
F-15K
Role Ground-attack aircraft and strike fighter
Manufacturer McDonnell Douglas
Boeing Defense, Space & Security
First flight 11 December 1986
Introduced April 1988
Status Active
Primary users United States Air Force
Royal Saudi Air Force
Israeli Air Force
Republic of Korea Air Force
For other users, see operators
Number built 334+[1]
Unit cost F-15E: US$31.1 million (flyaway cost, 1998)[2]
F-15K: US$100 million (2006)
Rafale just for kicks
Role Multirole fighter aircraft
National origin France
Manufacturer Dassault Aviation
First flight 4 July 1986
Introduced 4 December 2000
Status Active
Primary users Armée de l’Air
Aéronavale
Program cost €39.6 billion (1 January 2008 [1])
Unit cost Rafale C: €64 million, US$82.3 million (flyaway cost, 2008)[1]
Rafale M: €70 million, US$90.5 million (flyaway cost, 2008)[1]
F-2
Role Multirole fighter
National origin Japan, United States
Manufacturer Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Lockheed Martin
First flight 7 October 1995
Introduced 2000
Primary user Japan Air Self-Defense Force
Number built 94+4 prototype[1]
Unit cost ¥12 billion yen; $127 million (constant 2009 USD)[2]
Developed from F-16 Block 40
If you try to go cheap and buy F-16A and F-15C then your again throwing away money. Like I mentioned before The Chinese and Russians are certainly not scaling back there stealth programs
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I will also argue that the F-35 is worth 2 F-16s. why? Its force multiplier it can do the Job of more than 1 early model teen series.
1 more thing. America would be foolish to concede the fighter markets of close to a dozen countries to euro-fighter and dassault. The F-35 serves Americans economic export interests.
Two images of the new J-20 – one of the cockpit/canopy area and the other of it from the rear (which is a very nice CG).:cool:
I wish there was a better shot so that we can see the wing lay out, and any wing plan-form alignment.
As has been said by LM and the JPO, any weapon that is certified for the F-35 is certified FLEET WIDE no matter which client owns the F-35.
Who besides the U.K. uses the brimstone and the SS? who will pay to certify these? and using such a short ranged and small weapon as the brimstone on the F-35C doesn’t seem wise for SEAD.
I’m just not sure that cutting the F-35 buy to buy legacy air craft is the answer. Who ever told you that a new build F-16 and the latest F-15 will cost 40 million each was selling you snake oil. I predict that:
1.If the buy is cut significantly the per unit price will only increase to an unacceptable level.
2. All partners will drop out and the US might receive outrageous cancellation fees.
3. The Us will turn to legacy platforms only to find that the latest F-15s and F-16s cost as much as what the F-35 would have cost before tampering 100 million +.
4. No even UCavs will save the industry, when they discover that if you wanna turn a F-22 into a UCav you still have to pay for the last 10% of capability.
Really we are paying a steep price to stay ahead of the world in fighter design. Maybe if we decide to skip a generation we can sort things out.
1 more point geo. I hope you realize that F-15se or even. F-16 xl would run you
100mill each. you do realize this, correct?
And just how will we become more capable? How will we face anti-acess threats with only legacy fighters, and 180 F-22s? What if the 6th gen
When u start to cut the buy, you wont save money, youll
Only increase the unit price. As we say In the game of spades.
” go big or go home” finish the program or cancel it.
If we continue to cutt numbers, we won’t have air forces to speak of.
I didn’t realize it before, but since the USN/USAF will qualify the jassm they could let the Americans do all of the testing work. Jassm has a greater range than scalp any way.
I think the big question is what weapons will the U.K. take the time and money to certify on the F-35C?


http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0163.shtml
The U.K, could very well try and go cheap with just dumb bombs.
I know it sounds silly, but in this financial climate anything is possible.
They shouldn’t have to worry about AMRAAMs. But they will have to foot the bill on storm shadow and brimstone ect.
Also a large scale cancellation or reduced order would only raise the entire program cost and send it into a death spiral. What do you do with the small carriers, with no vertical lift fast jets? Good luck on trying to stop the Marine corp lobbyists.
Wow, fly F-18s and F-16s until 2030? By then the design will be over 60s years old. Do you think our enemies will cancel or cut back there stealth programs also? If we are going to cut costs lets start with pork spending and social welfare programs 1st. We cant afford to give every one on earth free health care. And its this type of thinking in the Clinton era that got us to this spot in the 1st place.
I can imagine its either:
1. They are testing new radars on it.
2. They are qualifying weapons on it.
3. They want to use it as a Uav.
4. They plan on reactivating them hopefully with skin and sensor upgrades.
H
The YF-22 was chosen as inferior solution with main advantages being
– less technological risks
– lower cost
– it was closer to series than YF-23 at that time (incl. AIM-9 firing trials)
The weapons rack setup on the YF-23 was its weak point. Every one on this
board knows this. Please prove your point.
Ok, then give me an example of a modern inferior combat air craft chosen after a fly off!
So your point is that the F-22 is inferior in every way to the YF-23?
And did you just insult me? that grounds for a warning or a ban.