richw_82There are already a good few of the type preserved. And a spares recovery might greatly aid the restoration of the others. You can’t save them all, and how sad it might be to loose one, better a few preserved in great condition and cared for, then many in a half abandoned state.
Out of 185 built there are 16 left – not a great number.
Of that number, worldwide, 2 are wreckage, 2 are abandoned/derelict, 1 is derelict and incomplete. 2 aircraft have been scrapped in the last couple of years.
6 Shackletons out of the survivors are MR2/AEW2. 2 of them are derelict/abandoned as mentioned above.
8 Shackletons survive in the UK.
3 of them are MR2/AEW2.
How many more do we have to lose? If these were any other large aircraft people would be going nuts.
Regards,
Rich
richw_82SADSACK, the Nimrod arrived in May 2010, ‘Airbase’ closed at the end of 2012, and CAF opened in early 2013.
Rich
richw_82To some extent, yes. If changing policy were that easy though, there would be nothing in policy left that anyone didn’t like! Good luck if you want to pursue that route – however I think by the time a change is effected it would be too late for WL795.
I don’t think for on minute the RAF/MOD haven’t recognised the feeling of enthusiasts; there were attempts over the past few months to find a museum willing to take the aircraft on, and an offer to us for spares recovery in support of WR963. I don’t think its “rules are rules” – its just that all branches of MOD have to be aware of value for money, and its been a high priority over the last copule of years. MOD assets can’t be just disposed of for free, and despite enthusiasts wanting it to be so for attractive bits of kit, the majority of taxpayers don’t see it the same way.
Give it a shot though, if you think you can find a way to save WL795 I urge you to try. We are.
Regards,
Rich
richw_82I believe CAF are a charitable trust, so there may be some scope for that approach to be applied. The current guidelines are in JSP 886, Vol 4 – though as I mentioned earlier I’m told they are under review.
Regards,
Rich
richw_82Pleased to say I have now heard directly from CAF. The situation isn’t quite as has been reported by various people (quelle surprise), and CAF say that it is ridiculous to suggest that they would not do everything they could to save the Shackleton. Space isn’t the issue at all. RAF St.Mawgan had indeed offered to gift the aircraft to CAF but an MoD bean-counter has indeed stepped-in and stopped the process, resulting in the invitations to tender. The aircraft’s condition isn’t all that bad and the tail wheel issue is “superficial” and was resolved in any case.
Different to what we were told by CAF in July then but I’m glad they’ve changed their mind. If they want parts or assistance, Coventry have our contact details, as does OC Eng at St Mawgan.
However, the tail wheel leg issue ISN’T superficial, the casting hasn’t just cracked, its split apart and a large chunk has fallen away, the only thing retaining the leg in place being a combination of the aircraft’s weight and two very small bolts holding the shock absorber in. It hasn’t been rectified and the aircraft is still trestled to stop any undue movement. The port MLG gear leg is corroded at its root, to a depth of about half an inch and has an inhibitor applied. I would suggest to get an idea of the aircraft’s true condition that getting a copy of the survey of WL795 done by BBMF would be a start, and get it quickly.
They say that if there’s any way that they can still get the aircraft then they will, but it seems that (as said before) it’s the MoD that has scuppered the plan to save the Shackleton, on the grounds that they think they can make a few bob out of it – even if this means selling it for scrap.
This has been coming for a while and there were enquiries made throughout this year, by MOD and RAF St Mawgan about how best to save the aircraft. Slow movement by all parties has unfortunately coincided with a change in Government/MOD policy over gifting of airframes, and I’m told its undergoing a further change as we speak. This excerpt from an e-mail sent to us via the Cornish Aviation Society, dated 27 Oct –
“Due to the MOD policy of Aircraft removal I have had to go through the DSA (Disposal Services Authority) in order to legitimately remove the Aircraft from Station. This process opens up a Tender where potential buyers can come to view the Aircraft and place bids for it acquirement. Unfortunately this does potentially mean that the Aircraft could leave the county if bought.”
MOD haven’t scuppered anything, its a legal process and it has to be followed.
Regards,
Rich
richw_82No incoming from this location, the possibilities were discussed with our Trustees last week. We’ll happily participate in a cooperative if it avoids the aircraft going straight to the scrapper, and lend what assistance we can if any group chooses/manages to acquire it outright and move it to a new location.
We had a few loan items (three in total) on WL795 but other than that there’s not much on her we could use; front turret, bomb doors and a couple of other small fittings off the top of my head. Our input into this isn’t to try and gain parts though, its to try and preserve what we can, as WL795 is one of only three Shackleton MR2/AEW2 left in the UK and WR963 is already fairly well off in terms of spares.
Regards,
Rich
richw_82Its not one or the other, its a matter of both – you’re missing the point slightly.
If CAF don’t have the space, then obtaining more room would result in more costs to them. Pressure on the Airport might work, but I doubt they are going to give or loan anything, as they haven’t done so in the past. If it were the case, then the chances are CAF would be all over the aircraft like a bad rash.
Yes it works out cheap and easy, but only if the Airport waive any fees for the ground rent, parking or even making a hole in the fence big enough for the Shackleton to get through. Someone, somewhere, will incur a siginificant cost if WL795 went up the hill onto the airfield. No-one is going to want it to be them.
Rich
richw_82Bruce, there’s a tail leg already down there. We sent a genuine Shack one that wasn’t quite fit for use on WR963.
richw_82There’s plenty of space, the problem is finance. St Mawgan (or Newquay Airport) is a commercial airport and nothing is given cheap.. or for free. Where does the money come from to move the fence and pay for more ground? CAF do the best with what they have, and will have thought it through fully before declining the Shackleton.
richw_82This is all getting a bit heated and out of hand.
We can all speculate about where the Shackleton deserves to be, or ought to be, but unless a successful bid is made and funding exists for the dismantle and move – its future is pretty bleak, and discussions of moving it to the other end of the country are pretty pointless unless you have a six figure amount of lost change down the back of the sofa..
There’s more than a few of us would like to see it stay at St Mawgan, but it seems at the moment that CAF can’t take it on (and we asked whether they would take it if SPT purchased it). We were told that space was their problem, and also the airframe survey done by BBMF suggested WL795 looks a lot better than she actually is. Having had a good prod and poke around her the undercarriage is the worst issue preventing any kind of move other than being dismantled, unless the port and tail undercarriage is changed, but the amount of seized and corroded fasteners prevent a deeper look at the structure.
Laying the problem of rescue and preservation of this aircraft at CAF’s door purely due to their proximity is not constructive, they only have so much space and resources and have always made their intention clear that the flying aircraft are their priority.
With regards to the MOD tender process – its not that RAF St Mawgan personnel want to see the Shack scrapped, the only LEGAL way to transfer title of an airframe is through the disposals process. The policy on gifting has already changed once in recent months, and is under review again as we speak. The last contact I had suggested they are trying everything in their power to keep it at St Mawgan, or if not, within Cornwall.
Regards,
Rich
richw_82Baz,
If it can be done as per the original plan, we’ll arrange new U/C legs, manpower to change them, and the towbar.
We’ll do pretty much anything to avoid the UK losing another Shack, so we’ve also registered interest with the DSA.
Regards,
Rich
richw_82This is all very odd – I seem to remember comments from CAF either on here or another forum claiming that they were preparing to move the Shackleton up to the CAF hangar. What’s gone wrong with that plan? Likewise, why is it being disposed of? Are they still replacing it with a Wessex as we were told months ago? What’s happened to the people who have been keeping the aircraft in decent condition? They repainted it not all that long ago.
I am told CAF no longer have room, having collected a few large airframes recently. We at SPT offered to replace the tail undercarriage and source new main landing gear legs to replace the badly corroded parts, and also loan our tow bar – this would have allowed WL795 to move up the hill.
The Wessex is still slated as the replacement for the Shack, with the Cornish Aviation Society only being made aware of the disposal process at the end of October.
Incidentally, I seem to recall that someone claimed the Shackleton (wrecks) in Cyprus had finally gone?
I had been told that and posted on here querying it. I contacted Paphos Airport directly and was told that was not the case, WL747 and WL757 are still sat fading in the sun.
As we have mentioned on our Facebook page – if any group or individual chooses to go after WL795 with the intent of saving it in some form rather than scrapping, we will offer whatever assistance we can.
Kind regards,
Rich W
Shackleton Preservation Trust
richw_82I’m told they had the offer, but chose not to take the Shackleton on. Airframe wise, she’s not in the greatest condition, her undercarriage being particularly fragile.
It is a shame. I don’t think we (SPT) can do much about this as it would take a huge chunk out of the budget and resources we have available for WR963, in particular trying to move the aircraft.
richw_82Its not a new discovery, it was featured on Divernet a few years back.
http://www.divernet.com/Travel_Features/northern_europe/157584/ice_cold_in_norway.html
richw_82MP,
It was discussed on Facebook by a group that are trying to resurrect a Wellington with a view to creating or rebuilding a flying example. I don’t know how far their enquiries went.
It would certainly be worth raising in its own right – some of the Med recoveries (P40, B24, Blenheim, Spitfire..) have proven to be in exceptional condition compared against North Sea and Channel wrecks.
Regards,
Rich
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