Uh given that many in CMF make racist comments on India and that CDF in the past has had juvenile a$$hats running down everything India, till Col cracked down- does that make everything on CDF main page automatically suspect?

Every bit of information in the above excerpt can be verified independently- if you have the time and energy to do so.

Prove it with facts- not just saying “bias” and then justifying the bias.

That is more on the likes of senor H177/Yahoo 25’s arguements in the past et al- the LCA is Indian hence hindu, hence mismanaged, hence Infidel hence automatically suspect etcetc.

Not that you are in their category by any standard whatsoever- but your arguements appear to be shaped the same way.

The fact is that the LCA is overwhelmingly catalogued- thanks to Parliamentary oversight and Accounting committees. The US GAO doesnt even come close in many respects. Only in recent days has the level of detail gone down apparently per AF requests.

I dont care about what BR thinks of the J10- you have a problem with that, take it up with them- you have every right to- but a lot of the cynicism would disappear if the PLAAF et al were more forthcoming with information and if Chinese posters didnt keep coming on BR and posting stuff like “J10 great LCA sucks”.

I dont think anyone on BR actually believes that the J10 does NOT exist.

That PS thing is more of a defence mechanism to rile the CMF’ers who use the forum to launch attacks.

Uh and I’ll need more objective articles from non Chinese sources or anything related to them for believing the J10 etc. Equal-equal. And equally silly. Lets ignore what the Chinese say about the J10 and what the Indians think of the LCA, but hey lets ask the Martians or some “guru” sitting in Janes with no first hand sources whatsoever or interest in some “third world projects”.

I don’t really care about CDF or CMF or PDF, but if you’re writing an article that’s supposed to be taken as a serious research piece, then you need to find references outside of your own website. IIRC, 9 out of 11 (only 11 sources for this article?) of the sources are from BR, which I imagine is as objective as any nationalistic military website, take your pick; pakistanidefence, china-defense, debka, etc…

And no, I’m not just saying this because it’s published my BR. I’m saying this because it’s being trumpeted as the serious article to end all questions, and if it’s going to be marketed as that, then it better be thorough, and not read like someone’s opinion piece with info garnered from the internet.

Turobjet engine for C-802/803 was supplied by israel from gb IV project, its intresting to note that one of the reasons china-israel relationship soured was because china supplied Turbojet engine to iran along with license to produce it. Sharon wasnt too happy when he heard about that and used US objection as an excuse to excuse the phalcon deal as well end other China-israel military technology sharing programs.

That’s the first time I’ve heard that- do you have a link for this piece of news?

Despite being so large, that sounds like a rather small payload of APCs though. Are the Aist class hovercrafts still ins ervice?

Maroc Mirage, what ship LPD? is that Zubr being loaded into in that picture that you posted?

Here’s a pic of a highspeed Greek Zubr.

I heard the PLAAF may have used their modified Tu-4 with their homebuilt awacs radome during the ’79 war. Anyone have more info on its performance, which I’m guessing wasn’t very satisfactory?

Yes, that is a possibility.

But what, exactly, in the article are you asserting is bias, and as an extention of this, what in the article can be construed as incorrect information, lies, or exaggerations?

A generalization of the BR forum members a valid arguement against the article, in facts presented or gist, does not make.

Respectfully,
Raj

Of course just because the article may have bias, it doesn’t mean the information is false. But while I was attempting to verify the information in the sources, as you pointed out, the article is a bit old, so none of the weblinks work. Can you point me to the working ones?

I forget what PLA’s original contention was (something on lack of indigenization probably), but for such a wide-ranging quote as the following

Sanctions and the unwillingness to share on the part of the USA and UK lead to the indigenous development of many of the hi-tech capabilities needed for a modern fighter. A non-exhaustive list of these technologies includes – avionics, systems integration, gas turbine engines, flight control software (fly-by-wire), actuators, sensors, composites technologies, virtual reality software, CAD/CAM (Computer Aided Design/Manufacturing) software, Computational Fluid Dynamics and communications [1]. Many of these technologies are strategically important from a national security perspective and form the bedrock of the reborn Indian aerospace industry.

I think I would need more sources besides 1 reference from a defenceindia website, which may or may not be providing skewed information.

cheers.

Here’s one more additional article on that deal.

Date Posted: 23-Jul-2004

JANE’S DEFENCE WEEKLY – JULY 28, 2004

——————————————————————————–

Pakistan boosts its helicopter fleet
DAMIAN KEMP JDW Staff Reporter
Londoni>Additional reporting by Mujahid Ali
Islamabad

Bell Helicopter began delivering Pakistan 26 Bell 412EP medium twin-engine helicopters under a deal worth more than $230 million. Nine of the helicopters were delivered in June and the remainder will be handed over before May 2005.

The helicopters will provide a substantial boost to the Pakistani armed forces utility helicopter fleet, which is dominated by aircraft more than three decades old. The fleet is a logistical nightmare with a mix of Russian (Mil Mi-17), US (Agusta-Bell 205A-1 and Bell UH-1H Iroquois) and French (Aerospatiale SA 330J) utility helicopters.

The 412EP is widely used in civilian applications, particularly with police forces, but is also used for border patrol with the Slovenian Air Force, training at the UK’s privately operated Defence Helicopter Flying School and with the Venezuelan Navy.

The announcement of the deliveries follows a visit by US Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage to Islamabad early in July.

In March Pakistani officials gave Washington a list of military equipment they required, including helicopters, communication systems and sensors along with improved access to US satellite information. The March list included a request for two squadrons of 12 helicopters.It is expected that Pakistani officials will visit Washington before the end of August for further discussions.

Speaking after the visit, Armitage said Pakistan had requested faster delivery of equipment. “And that is what we will be able to do. Our position is to deliver as much as we can,” he said.

The co-operation from Washington follows commitment from Pakistan to crack down on militants operating on the Afghan-Pakistan border.

Related articles Jane’s All The World’s Aircraft, Bell Helicopter Textron canada, Bell 412

*** FAIR USE NOTICE. This message contains copyrighted material whose use has not been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. It is being made available without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information in their efforts to advance their understanding of arms trade activities, for non-profit research and educational purposes only. I believe that this constitutes a ‘fair use’ of the copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the U.S. Copyright Law. If you wish to use this copyrighted material for purposes of your own that go beyond ‘fair use,’ you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.
For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml