worthyoneBudget IS policy. No money, no 5th gen aircraft for Rutech. It is a simple fact. There isn’t any money for an engineer ( those that are left ) to do much in Russian aviation. The few good ones still left are spread thin…. trying to cobble together commercial ventures like the regional jet project and some other things. The few military projects aren’t especially new. Now if you want to talk software writing that is something they need to sink funds into. Except here they will have to pay real money, as a lot of the software talent in Russia is making real money on commericial software projects of many flavors. Software talent these days requires you pay the person doing that. I don’t see the government coming up with the cash to pay someone there who is already making better money on commercial ventures…. or aerospace ventures…. for U.S. aerospace. 😉 There isn’t enough beef to for Russia by itself to get a real 5th gen fighter off of the ground. Just on funding software talent alone and not counting all the fancy materials that goes into one of these gold plated turkeys. Good luck.
Do you know what year it is??? By the sound of your post you think it is ’96 when there was no cash in Russian industry…you do realise a lot has changed since the collapse right?
Russia’s economy has improved dramatically, it’s soldiers, police officers, teachers and SCIENTISTS are actually getting paid regularly now. There are quite a few scientists RETURNING to Russia…geez check your calander.
worthyoneYou wanna know what really p’s me off about threads like this? People like Elp and Showtime who so quickly drag down Russian and Chinese aircraft manufacturers, claiming they will be unable to really compete against such aircraft as the F/A-22 or F/A-35.
Need I remind you that the F/A-35 is a JOINT aircraft that is MAINLY AMERICAN (not British, French, Italian, German, Swedish or anybody elses except in partnership, none of these nations have YET produced a FULLY stealth combat aircraft capable of competing against the Raptor…and I state these nations because they are seen as “top” aircraft producers).
The F/A-22 is being produced by the ONLY nation that still is capable of throwing billions of dollars into such a project with the other nations such as France and the UK stepping back from the Cold War mentality of preparing for the next big war.
Need I remind the people on here that it was the Russians who often LEAD the avaiation world in such items as TVC and helmet mounted sights, producing aircraft that could make a mockery of European aircraft like the Tornado ADV in close in air combat (please don’t start babbling about the F-15/16…I didn’t mention them and they are NOT European).
So saying Russia is not capable of producing an aircraft that can compete with the F/A-22 or F/A-35…give them an American budget and they will produce an aircraft that would laugh at the Raptor.
Given the budget Sukhoi is recieving for the new fighter, a fraction of the Raptors budget, surely the fact that they can produce a fighter capable of competing with such a monster is testimony to Russian design capability??? As for China…well as they say, time will tell…let’s see how well the Raptor competes with the J-XX
worthyoneWell this isn’t really the correct forum to be discussing this on, but till someone moves it to G.D. then what the hell.
First you should ask if EITHER of them can afford another war, Russia has troops in Chechnya and Georgia is recovering from conflict with South Ossettia or however you spell it.
Militarily, it would be no contest…Russia would steamroller Georgia’s little army if it choose to declare war. Georgia has no fighters, except a few airworthy Frogfoots which would be no match for the Russian Fulcrums that are stationed in Armenia.
The Georgian Air Force could do little except hide from bombing raids. The Georgian army, while well motivated, is poorly equipped and would stand little chance against Russian regular infantry.
Russian Spetznaz would not be deployed alone, this would not be another Chechnya (at least at first). Moscow is well aware that Georgia does have an army, no matter how small or poorly equipped and would send mechanized infantry with BMP-2/3 and airborne troops with BMD-3/4 vehicles with BTR’s in support. I doubt Georgias small number of T-72’s would merit a large scale deployment of more modern Russian tanks, so they would send T-64/72 tanks that are still serving in large numbers.
Spetznaz would get to do what they were meant to do, take control of Georgians communications and destroy key government or military buildings while taking out key military and political members.
Eventually the Georgian troops would end up fighting with guerilla tactics, but Moscow now has a large number of troops in Chechnya that are experienced at dealing with that. Some troops in Chechnya could be sent as advisors to assist new deployments in Georgia, or with Chechnya settling down, Russian troops IN Chechnya could be sent with Chechen security being fully handed over to Chechen troops and police.
But why would Russia want to invade Georgia??? They would have nothing to really gain!!! This is not like Chechnya were there was a real threat to Russian national security, Chechnen rebels were in a good position to raid across the Russian border, which they did, they were known for commiting acts of terrorism…the Georgians are not gonna do either.
Also I don’t think Russia would even have to invade or attack Georgia…simply “install” a new government, there is ALWAYS someone would will dance with the “devil” (no offence to any Russians…I actually admire you lot). So Moscow would simply strike a deal with a potential new leader in Georgia…if the Georgian President turns up dead soon for some unknown reason or if there is a sudden coup in Tblisi then we all know why!!! :diablo:
worthyoneErrr….think they can replace the Iraqi Flag with either an Iranian, North Korean Flag …how about a PLAAF insignia? :diablo:
Why bother replacing it, knowing that region of the planet the Americans will probably be back bombing the place in twenty years or so :diablo:
worthyoneNo the English are not a race. No NATIONALITY is a RACE Roscoria, being Danish is NOT a race just like being Japanese is NOT a race.
There are ethnic diversities in all races, there are different ethnic groups in Pakistan as there are in China and Brazil and there are “conflicts” between these groups so it is not purely a colour thing. Without sounding like I know what the hell I’m talking about, there are “differences of opinion” within some races based on how dark peoples skin complexions are despite being classed as the same race and being the same nationality.
worthyoneNo the English are not a race. No NATIONALITY is a RACE Roscoria, being Danish is NOT a race just like being Japanese is NOT a race.
There are ethnic diversities in all races, there are different ethnic groups in Pakistan as there are in China and Brazil and there are “conflicts” between these groups so it is not purely a colour thing. Without sounding like I know what the hell I’m talking about, there are “differences of opinion” within some races based on how dark peoples skin complexions are despite being classed as the same race and being the same nationality.
worthyonewould have been interesting to see manned Farmers being launched from a bomber though…and just think what it might have lead to??? 😉
worthyoneWell the Iraqi’s need fighters because the Yanks and Brits aren’t gonna be there forever that’s why
worthyoneWhy haven’t the Iraqis been sold F-16’s or MiG-29s yet, that’s what I wanna know!
worthyoneI thought the Foxbat was operational by ’68 in small numbers :confused:
worthyoneSounds like they wouldn’t have lasted long if the s*** had hit the fan, I mean with NATO members like Norway, Belgium, Denmark, The Netherlands, West Germany, Britain and the US fighter forces operating from Germany and Iceland dominating the Northern Atlantic and North Sea how could the Soviet bombers hope to survive?
Then again, I don’t think Britains Vulcans or US Buff’s would have lasted long in the anti-shipping roles which I believe they too would have undertaken operating against Soviet/Warsaw Pact fleets in the Adriatic, Black Sea or the Norweign/Barents Sea close to Soviet airspace.
How much protection could the Floggers and Foxbats that were entering Soviet service in the late sixties offer to the fleet when operating from East Germany (or occupied allied airbases 😀 ).
I know the Foxbat is a bomber interceptor but surely some would be sent out to sea for fleet protection?
How far out could the Flagon get and how potent was it for that period?
worthyoneDid the Soviets have stand off cruise missile during the sixties for attacking surface warships?
I read that Soviet bombers, in addition to cruise missiles, were armed with free fall bombs. This was in the event of a bomber passing over a target of opportunity such as a sole NATO warship or a merchant convoy, how effective would free fall bombing have been against shipping given the new aiming devices? Remember we are talking about the 60’s era here.
Also as Schorsch said, the Soviet crews would have to fly around Norway and Britain and stay well clear of Iceland…so what chance of success would they have had?
Did the Soviets have a long range escort fighter at that time able to protect the bombers from the RAF and RNoAF?
Was the Foxbat or Fiddler a capable escort aircraft?
How long do you think Soviet bomber action against NATO in the North Sea would have been able to last in the face of intense aerial action?
worthyoneU know Comet I have to say fair play for bringing up the the links that you did, it really gets me when the BBC and organsiation such as the police shy away from linking racism to the murders of white people but every time a non-white person is murdered or attacked they scream racism at the top of their voices so well done mate!!!
And to add to what Comet said, racism exists in ALL countries, ALL cultures and ALL religions!!! There is no such thing as a racist free culture, nationality, religion, creed whatever…it’s just human nature.
I have to wonder how much attention the media would have given the story Joey brought up if it was a Russian who was murdered in India???…don’t take that the wrong way Joey I’m not trying to suggest anything about racism in India (except as I said it does exist as it does EVERYWHERE) but you have to understand it gets frustrating that racism against white people is rarely covered for one reason or another, at least it isn’t here in the UK.
worthyoneU know Comet I have to say fair play for bringing up the the links that you did, it really gets me when the BBC and organsiation such as the police shy away from linking racism to the murders of white people but every time a non-white person is murdered or attacked they scream racism at the top of their voices so well done mate!!!
And to add to what Comet said, racism exists in ALL countries, ALL cultures and ALL religions!!! There is no such thing as a racist free culture, nationality, religion, creed whatever…it’s just human nature.
I have to wonder how much attention the media would have given the story Joey brought up if it was a Russian who was murdered in India???…don’t take that the wrong way Joey I’m not trying to suggest anything about racism in India (except as I said it does exist as it does EVERYWHERE) but you have to understand it gets frustrating that racism against white people is rarely covered for one reason or another, at least it isn’t here in the UK.
worthyoneMabie, I have to be honest. Your comment that the North would be unable to take over the South when the US and it’s many allies don’t seem able to control or end the insurgency in either Iraq or Afghanistan (not trying to flame here just stating fact) is astonishing!
What makes you think counter insurgency in a modern day Vietnam would be any easier than in Iraq or Afghanistan, the VC fought with more courage and tenacity than the Iraqi or Afghan insurgents….and when backed by what would be a modern day North Vietnamese army and it’s air force, it would be a lot more difficult than either Iraq or Afghanistan.
I assume we are taking all things into consideration, including the high desertion rate amongst the South Vietnamese army and the other insurgencies going on in Laos and Cambodia that the US was knee deep in at that time and the anger voiced by US citizens at the war???
Even if the US did invade the North, do you seriously think they would be able to control anti-US sentiment in the North…as in Iraq if anything the situation would get a whole lot worse and we would be seeing wrecks of Hummers, Bradleys and Abrams burning on the streets of Hanoi.
So that combined with pressure from the US public and that of it’s allies involved in the conflict such as Australia and South Korea to bring their boys home would in the end force the same conclusion, the US would pull out (includes if the US was occupying the North) and either (if it was a modern day version based on events) the South would eventually fall or (if the US invaded the North) North Vietnam would end up emboiled in civil war leading to a Chinese invasion to secure the Vietnamese/Chinese border.
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