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Cees Broere

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Viewing 15 posts - 241 through 255 (of 1,395 total)
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  • in reply to: Crashed Aeroplanes – War Graves – Time Team #1237076
    Cees Broere
    Participant

    No, not an aviation archaeologist Cees.

    A Hero!

    I believe that he was honoured for his work by HM Government, as was Dr Benamou in Normandy. That is, for work recovering and identifying missing RAF aircrew. What is difficult to understand, Cees, is how the MOD view that work so differently and so positively when they have viewed such work in the UK with such negativity and, at times, hostility.

    When attending a military funeral of a lost Battle of Britain pilot in the early 1980’s at Brookwood I was astonished to be told, during a discussion with a senior MOD official who was talking about the question of missing aircrew:

    “Do you have any idea how much a military funeral like this costs?”

    I will not name him, but there were many witnesses. True, the sentence here is taken out of context although, to be clear, the context of that statement was that recovery was too expensive for the MOD to contemplate on a wider scale. I would like to think that the official concerned did not really properly consider his remark, nor that it reflects MOD policy or thinking – although…..! In any event, talking about the paltry cost of a military funeral on the overall Defence budget as set against a life given in defence of Britain was, to say the least, crass and offensive.

    I thought so,

    And quite rightly too, but he started out as a private enthusiast who started as a hobby, but got in contact with the RNethAF and has gone from there as a pioneer. But he never was a military man but got a rank while being a civilian in the AF. When he left he took all his files with him. Also having started out of interest he always slagged off civilian groups doing this kind of work. Luckily things have changed for the better over here as I already mentioned.

    But just to let you know,
    This thread is very interesting but has nothing to do with the current activtities in this field. As soon a “amateurs” have to follow rules and regulations, the majority would be against it. Although over here some
    actions have been tried by the authorities to regulate this over the years, time and time again, these rules were proven to be not very watertight. And when that was mentioned, the general answer was: they were meant as a guideline.

    Bottom line is, people start this kind work out of passion, not to start a paid profession. Speaking for myself, If I would have the opportunity to do this kind of work full time and paid for, I would not accept that. I think a lot of others active in this field would feel the same way.

    Just my opinion

    Cees

    in reply to: Aircraft Cockpit Sections/Instrument Panel Projects #1237312
    Cees Broere
    Participant

    (-3):)

    Cheers

    Cees

    in reply to: Aircraft Cockpit Sections/Instrument Panel Projects #1237331
    Cees Broere
    Participant

    (-2):)

    Cheers

    Cees

    in reply to: Aircraft Cockpit Sections/Instrument Panel Projects #1237339
    Cees Broere
    Participant

    (-):)

    Cheers

    Cees

    in reply to: Crashed Aeroplanes – War Graves – Time Team #1160513
    Cees Broere
    Participant

    Ok, just a question:

    You all probably know Mr Gerrit Zwanenburg, the first recovery officer of the RNethAF who pioneered this work during the sixties in Holland. You consider him to be an aviation archeologist?

    Just let me hear your views.
    Cheers

    Cees

    in reply to: RAFM, faded glory ? #1160520
    Cees Broere
    Participant

    So there’s a lack of vision situation present then?

    Cheers

    Cees

    in reply to: Crashed Aeroplanes – War Graves – Time Team #1161162
    Cees Broere
    Participant

    Excellent thread,

    But is seems you’ve lost me somewhere.:)

    At least now I know I am not an Aviation Archeologhysthingy.:o

    So what has been accomplished here ?

    Cheers

    Cees

    in reply to: Aircraft Cockpit Sections/Instrument Panel Projects #1162209
    Cees Broere
    Participant

    Ere Cees,Have a word with those nice chaps at Deelen and get them to donate their Pilots seat to me would you. LOL!!!!!!!!!!

    Martin,

    Don’t think they would, but I will be visiting them soon so i can always ask.
    Peter van Gelderen and one of our volunteers measured the seat and took detailed pics and two examples were made which are now in Peter’s cockpit project. They look very realistic.

    Cheers

    Cees

    in reply to: Crashed Aeroplanes – War Graves – Time Team #1162230
    Cees Broere
    Participant

    Don’t worry I wouldn’t try to dig up an old Roman villa.:dev2:

    Definiton of Archeology (one of many though)
    The study of the past through material remains. Often focused upon the life and culture of ancient peoples, but also applied to the more recent past.

    Fitting don’t you think, but who cares what’s it called, there are so many different perspectives in this field, everybody is right or everbody is
    wrong. The bottom line is whether the activities are done with one common goal (excluding financial gain in this case, well at least in mine)

    Cheers

    Cees

    in reply to: Flying Italian Warbird #1163997
    Cees Broere
    Participant

    The only Reggiane Re2005 bit that remains today is a rear fuselage.

    Cheers

    Cees

    in reply to: Aircraft Cockpit Sections/Instrument Panel Projects #1164000
    Cees Broere
    Participant

    Yes, you can buy a nice car for the amount that you have spent once the project is finished (same here).
    Co-operation again is the best thing to get results.

    Cheers

    Cees

    in reply to: Crashed Aeroplanes – War Graves – Time Team #1164004
    Cees Broere
    Participant

    Aviation Archeology was a term invented by FlyPast IIRC (correct me if I’m wrong). People always seem to be trying to fit anything in tight cubes and that way restrict certain actions by putting a label to it.

    I am not a wreckhunter, if I am not an aviation archeologist, then what am I?:cool:

    Anyway, I (and I think my fellow collegues active in this field agree with me hopefully) do this kind of work because I am passionate about the history of WWII meaning the technical advances and above all the personal stories of those who were there and died from it. Sixty + years later their stories still need to be told, missing aircrew found and given a proper resting place, where their next of kin are assured that their loved ones are no longer missing. Recovery of wrecks is purely out of dedication to these men and serve as a memorial. Having a great interest in these aircraft is a bonus as it gives one the drive to learn how an aircraft is built and to identify small bits as having come from type X and where it was originally fitted so the wrecksite can be identified and if needed indentified where human remains can be expected in cooperation with the authorities.

    A decade ago the RNethAf and civilian groups were totally against each other but that has changed for the better since 2003 beginning with two recoveries where 11 missing crewmembers were finally identified after having been missing since 1941 and 1944. That alone is the most satisfying matter and most important aspect of this kind of work. Not discussing endlessly about it. This is the best of both worlds, the “amateurs” have the knowhow about the aircraft, the crews and have usually already all the information handy that the authorities can use, the Air Force have the knowhow how to deal with UXB, exhuming human remains and anything that is involved with this kind of work. The Air Force itself were the first to admit that the “amateurs” have a massive amount of knowledge that has taken decades to gather. During the recovery of the Polish Lancaster when divers were holding bits just above water, we were already shouting ” that’s an elevator mounting bracket!”, while Air Force crew were still busy thumbing in commercially available publications. In the Air Force personell usually work for a few years in a certain job before being posted elsewhere. When they are doing the work they are doing that with full dedication, “amateurs” as well as “professionals”.If professional archeologists are afraid that others are interfering with “their” work, then that’s their problem.

    My opinion only of course

    Cheers

    Cees

    in reply to: Aircraft Cockpit Sections/Instrument Panel Projects #1164095
    Cees Broere
    Participant

    Hi Martin,

    That’s a great collection of Stirling stuff, you have made a lot of progress so to see. Keep it up.
    Is this your own project next to the Stirling Project?

    Cheers

    Cees

    in reply to: Crashed Aeroplanes – War Graves – Time Team #1164584
    Cees Broere
    Participant

    The situation in the Netherlands is that the Government has transferred responsibility (meaning financial burden as well) to the local authorities (the local mayor so to speak). If a wreck is known to contain human remains or UXB the first reaction is to do nothing (otherwise it will cost a lot of money).If due to actions by groups:rolleyes: Joe Public is outraged by the silly attitude of these llocal authorities and demand that the wreck is recovered to give any crewmembers a fitting burial or to make sure public safety is not compromised by some live 500 lbs bombs care of the RAF (or USAAF or Luftwaffe), they have to call in the Recovery Team of the Royal Netherlands Air Force, who are experienced in this field.

    In the end, the majority of the total costs which can be about 400.000 euro’s will be covered by the Dutch Government less a certain amount that will have to be paid for by the local authorities and that depends on a said amount (say 5 euro’s) per head of the local community.

    The past few years activities in this field have increased and this kind of work is now a large part of the daily work of this fine team (and great guys they are). Cooperation with “amateurs” has never been better these past years.

    Cheers

    Cees

    in reply to: Post your preserved Halifax photographs here #1164589
    Cees Broere
    Participant

    Another one of LW170 after ditching, it was reported that it floated for seven hours.:eek:

    Anyone have pics of the part Halifax cockpit that was transferred to the RAF Museum from CARG? DaveR spotted it but didn’t photograph it.:eek:

    Cheers

    Cees

Viewing 15 posts - 241 through 255 (of 1,395 total)