I knew it was too easy (or you cheated by looking at the attachmentnr)
😉
Cees
Nice ideas but lets try and concentrate on getting something done with the oldest surviving hali first ok?
Peter,
There is nothing wrong with several project going on at the same time, besides the Whitley and Stirling projects are only with us through personal interest and initiative. Most other project have started that way. As James said, the Halifax is Hendon’s responsibility but there are other projects going on or planned that wil be interesting to say the least. How about a Blackburn Botha, the rumoured Albemarle etc. There are still gaps left to fill.
Although (yep, personally again) I would love to see another Halifax recovered, if a Stirling was found that one would have greater priority.
Cees
Name that panel
Ok, something to wake you up.
What panel am I working on at the moment (next to the Halifax cockpit project)
Cheers
Cees
Hi Cees,
As ever, we disagree less than it might seem. All the points you’ve made in this last post are good ones, and I can appreciate them (and concur – to a degree). The good news in Halifaxland is we’ve gone from one remnant nose to three airframes and a nose – it would be good that such ‘growth’ could be seen with the Whitley or Sterling.Cheers
That is what we all should try to achieve, the Whitley and Stirling are too important not to do something about it. Although Elliott is doing great work, what actually is needed is pooling of resources and the discovery of a substantial wreck. The same goes for the Stirling. Isn’t it an idea to apply for Lottery money?
Cees
David B, I quite agree.
Just a couple of myths to knock over. A museum of the RAF’s calibre would expect to stabilise and conserve any ‘unrestored’ airframe or part. To imply that it would be left to deteriorate is not realistic, and criticism of the Halifax’s state here some time ago was shown (IIRC) to be based on false premises itself based on a bias against the display. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t make it wrong.
Cees, look up the museum term ‘conservation’, before going on in a manner that hardly does your expertise justice.
Funding does not direct a ‘half and half’ restoration project – that’s a matter of policy. Funding means that only a certain niumber of items happen ‘now’ with the others awaiting more money to become available. ‘We could restore half of the aircraft for half the money’ is just rubbish, and not a decision the RAFM would take.
There is a ‘complete’ Hampden on show at Langley, BC, Canada. There’s at least one other project in the UK able to be rebuilt to complete status – but it also needs funding and support.
The Me109E at Duxford is an example of the ‘half and half’ approach, and as displayed tells the general public both stories. The ‘barrier’ TT mentions (a wax, IIRC) was used here, and the original paint is still on both sides of the fuselage, one side being repainted over. Most impressive is the Spanish Civil War collection at Quatros Vientos, Spain, where each side of about ten aircraft are painted with the opposing sides. Unless you know, you might not notice they are Nationalist on one side and Republican the other! There are other examples too, the Fleet, the AWM in Canberra has a Beaufort (in store, currently) and so forth. What I’m surprised no one’s mentioned is generally one looks at one side of an aircraft (on the ground) at a time – the perception is of two different ‘stories’ being told.
Cheers
Come on James,
It’s not a selfish way of thinking of me or critisism towards the RAF Museum you know that. But if we are realistic time does have an effect on (even restored) airframes. That W1048 has been underwater for 31 years has not been any help. The aircraft is stable at the moment (I think) and they have ensured that this will be for the next decades but slapping on gallons of that ugly red preservative is not enough. Personally (this time yes) displaying her robbed of perspex etc. doesn’t create a good representation as how she had lain on the lakebed but that again is my personal view, and to a certain extent I can agree about the decision not to hang the engines etc. but making it a bit more complete would give youngers generations a better view of the might Halifax as opposed to the “legendary” Lancaster that is displayed only a few feet away.
Corrosion will go on between the structural joints etc. and should really be attended to by dismantling and conserving etc. Funds are a problem I agree and if I win the Lottery I would surely donate a vast sum towards the restoration of W1048 (not joking). The ugly thing is that funds were being raised to restore her but it was decided not to, Ok that is understandable, but what happend to these funds then. People who have contributed to this fund probably want to know.
I would really await the end result of the Hampden and I am sure they will make a nice display out of it (things have improved over the various decades). But that doesn’t mean that decisions made in the past cannot be altered for future generations.
Cheers
Cees
Jdk – difficult one – the problems and prospects for something which has been exposed to the environment for many years are slim. Certainly they were not designed to last this long and carefully trying to pickle existing unrestored structure whilst making it available for public inspection is a fine balancing act.
What’s the use for generations to come to inspect how an semi-complete aircraft is slowly crumbling on one side while the other part is restored (and probably needs restoration again).
Same goes for the Halifax (you felt it coming did you?). If not properly restored in about fifty or hundred years time there will be little left to display. Furthermore there will be less knowledge or even spares at that time to even conserve let alone restore aircraft. If an aircraft is properly restored for the next fifty years there is a better chance that the display life can be extended after that period than a displayed wreck that will only deteriorate every year as opposed to decades.
My view of course
Cees
Bristol Freighter – 1948 ??
Blackburn Beverly – 1949 ??
Nord Noratlas – 1949 ??
Bristol Brabazon – 1949 ??
Who else produced sleeve-valves other than Bristol ??
Ken
Napier :rolleyes:
Hey thanks for all the info on that Lincoln, great to see another heavie being restored.
Can anyone update me on my favourite aero the Halifax and the prospects of the two recoveries muted over the last few years, one from a lake and pne from the sea?
Hal
There are two potential sites where a substantial Halifax wreck may be found. One of which is LW170 which ditched in the Irish Sea and next year a survey is planned to find the airframe. Karl Kjarsgaard (who was instrumental in recovering NA337) wants this aircraft to be recovered and restored for display at Nanton. The aircraft flew 28 missions and has a RCAF record. The other site is in the Med and also involves a former RCAF aircraft (but was later transferred to 35 Sqn), but this time a Merlin powered aircraft which also ditched after losing three engines. Both are said to be at a depth of about 1 Km. Imho the saltwater content of these sites are not very beneficial for the airframes and I tried to convince Karl that Norway still has some potential for complete Halifaxes. But he said he really wants an airframe with RCAF pedigree.
Hope this helps
Cees
New guy on the block was part of the recovery team on Conic Hill near Loch Lomond. What can I help you with?
Welcome Jim
How about a report on the dig? We are a very curious lot and there are a lot of archeologists on this forum.
Cheers
Cees
Hi Andy,
Yes, looks like it.
Cheers
Cees
These engines are in remarkable condition. They look more like having been recovered from water then soil. Merlin 28’s have a more durable finish than the RR’s built ones. We have one from a water recovery as well and it is still als black as the day it was made. A RR’built example had the paint cracking and blistering awaw withing an hour after recovery.
What more was recovered?
Cheers
Cees
Blenheims 1940ish
Cees
How complete is the Australian Lincoln, if its not going to fly are Temora going to have it taxiable, it will look great on the flightline with the Meteor and Canberra and other contempories, when is it due to arrive and be put on display?
Does anyone have pics of it being disassembled, where was it on display before it left the UK?
Hal
“Hal”
Those are a lot of questions you are asking.
May I suggest you try the search option on this forum.
Cheers
Cees
Isn’t that Fury beautiful?? Now, what do we all need to do to persuade them to get it back into the air and onto the airshow circuit??
Nice to see the Viima too. I seem to think the last time I saw that, it was on a video of Aces High??
Make an offer to buy it. It’s for sale I understand
Cees
Yes Cees, that visit to Oslo was a great experience. It was nice to meet you. 🙂
By the way, It’s STIEGLITZ. :p
Greets,
Stieglitz
Same here Jochen
Cees