Honestly, i cant think of one reason on why we should buy the Mirage.
I mean take a look at the new Mig-29 :
> Better radar
> Better manuverability
> More easy to maintain
> Cheaper
> Can do a cobra (not a point really)
> Better aveonics (as it will use French/Israeli/Russian aveonics like the MKI)
> Better weapons (?)
Instead of buying the new mirage 2000-5, IMO we should upgrade the exisitng onese to 2000-5 standard.
Your thoughts ??
Hey Kovy,
any links of it being cancelled ?? …maybe since they cancelled it (as you claim) the sold the technology to China secretly ???
sinodefence also hints at something ..
A similar design can be found on French ASMP LACM
http://www.sinodefence.com/missile/antiship/yj12.asp
and here is another link on it >> http://www.deagel.com/pandora/?p=mn00055001
But the US need to give approval for its sale; and like the Phalcon AWACS, it too has some american patented technologies
The Arrow 2 missile approaches the target at a maximum speed of Mach 9, or 2.5km/s, to a maximum altitude of 50,000 m.

Read the contents of this link : http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/surface_missiles/arrow/Arrow.html
PS: India alredy has the Arrow system’s GREEN PINE RADAR & check this out as well :
Thales offers latest missile detecting radars to India
French defence major, [b][u]Thales has offered an across the board technology transfer to India in state-of-art radar knowhow to help New Delhi move speedily towards bridging the gaps in its air space coverage, specially in detecting low flying intrusions.[/b][/u]
Undettered by the recent US efforts at political level to muscle into the lucrative Indian market, Thales with an almost 50 year presence in India has set up an Indian subsidiary and is also offering to set up joint ventures in the country.
Jean Paul Perrier, Chief Executive of the 13 billion Euro multi-European company, Thales said his company was now offering to India its latest three dimension Herakles multi- function radars for the Indian Navy’s latest range of lethal indigenous P15 and P17 type frigates.
“The radars have the capability to detect incoming missiles, aircraft, helicopters as well as low-flying Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAV’S) as well as guide missiles and other weapons to deal with these threats,” Perrier told visiting Indian newsmen as the company unveiled the latest range of radars at Lnemore facility in the city suburbs.
The Herakles MFR-30 can perform in any weather conditions and have back scanning capability enabling it to release missiles to intercept incoming missiles threats, a capability which Indian armed forces lack so far.
Though US efforts at political level have caused some ripples in the French Defence industry, which is India’s third largest arms trading partner, Perrier told PTI that Thales was not unduly worried over the American onslaught.
“French companies will not shy away from competition. All we want is a level playing field to let our weapons platform and systems speak for themseleves,” he said.
“We were pitted against the Israelis, who could not match our systems and we are confident that we can outmatch any new bidders” Perrier said.
India was to procure 19 LLTR’s under the deal with the rest to be manufactured by BEL under full technology transfer. Though there is no no official word from the Defence Ministry, high-level defence officials said the Israeli bid was rejected as it did not not meet Indian qualitative standards.
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India’s Green pine radars
India has alredy bought the Green Pine radar form Israel :
The Elta Green Pine early warning and fire control radar for the Arrow system can [u]detect targets at ranges up to about 500km and is able to track targets at speeds over 3,000m/s. The radar illuminates the target and guides the interceptor missile to within 4m of the target. [/u]
The Arrow Weapon System features a state-of-the-art EL/M2080 L-band radar, Green Pine, based on the decades of experience in developing technological solutions for early warning and fire control defense systems.
The Elta Electronic Industries subsidiary of IAI Electronic Group developed the Green Pine early warning and fire control radar for the Arrow system. The radar carries the designation EL/M-2090 and includes the trailer mounted radar and antenna array, the power generator, a cooling system and a radar control centre.
Green Pine is an electronically scanned, solid state, phased array radar operating at L-band in the range 500MHz to 1,000MHz, and was developed from the Elta Music phased array radar. The radar operates in search, detection, tracking and missile guidance modes simultaneously.
The radar has the following features:
Phased array L-band radar
Dual mode operation – early warning and fire control
Long range acquisition capability – several hundred kilometers
Simultaneous tracking of dozens of Tactical Ballistic Missiles (TBM)
Clear discrimination between TBMs, aircraft and other missiles
ECCM capability
Transportability
India has placed an order for the supply of two Elta Green Pine for use with India’s air defence system against ballistic missiles. The first was delivered in 2001. The Green Pine Radar system is already deployed in India. The radar system, developed for Israel’s Arrow anti-missile missile, is a transportable ground-based multimode solid-state phased array radar, capable of predicting impact points of incoming tactical ballistic missiles.
The Green Pine radar’s strategic value along the Indian-Pakistani border is reportedly inestimable. “It covers all of Pakistan’s military command centers and bases between Islamabad, the capital, and the Indian frontier. The system reportedly provides India with surveillance of Pakistan’s nuclear centers and missile sites.
Regards,
Stealth Spy 🙂
We want the Arrow-2 with Citron tree.
We rejected the PAC-3 and asked for the THAAD.
Even our Akash is better than the basic Arrow-1 system and PAC-2
here is a copmilation of recent developments in the field :
Citing an announcement by defense officials at a press conference, India’s The Statesman reports that India could establish an air and missile defense shield for a 200 square kilometer area within five or six years, quoting defense scientists said. Such a system could reportedly be duplicated to protect “big cities and strategic facilities like nuclear reactors and space launching sites against incoming missiles.” The interceptor is said to be a surface-to-air missile with a range of 80-85 km, and another interceptor with a range of about 20 km. The Akash SAM is mentioned as a possible interceptor for such a system; “Meanwhile, the Akash will have some anti-missile system capabilities.”
As for the radars for such a system, Mr M. Natarajan, DRDO chief and scientific advisor to the defense minister, said they might include a phased-array radar placed on an executive jet, such as the Brazilian Embrear. India has already purchased from Israel the Phalcon aircraft-mounted radar system
India not impressed with the PAC-3 that it was offered
India is not impressed with the PAC-3 missile unit offered with the two-tier US anti-missile defence system, on the grounds that it is slow for the very low reaction period in the sub-continent, and therefore, the Pentagon will demonstrate more advanced technologies when defence minister Pranab Mukherjee visits the country.
Besides more advanced units than PAC-3, the US is offering mid-air jamming systems
India to outpace the rest of Asia in development and deployment of missiles and missile shields
India plans to outpace Asia and may be rest of the world in missile research and missile shield development and deployment. According to media sources in India, India will invest about Rs. 12,000 crore in the next eight years to produce world-class missiles. According to Prahlada, Director, Hyderabad-based Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL), besides this investment, which will go to industry, another Rs. 1000, crore will be spent on maintaining the missiles and upgrading their technology.
India’s strategic interest is in having a defense alliance with United States to protect India with a missile defense umbrella or shield. The strategic missile defense is considered by Indian defense establishments are most critical. The recent US-India ten-year defense alliance will help India to achieve its goal. India and the United States will sign an Overall Umbrella agreement on Science and Technology during the forthcoming US visit of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. This will further enhance the possibilities of achieving the Indian goals.
India rules out accepting US missile defence system
India on Tuesday ruled out accepting a missile defence system from the United States.
“There is no question of accepting (a) missile shield from anyone,” Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee told a news conference in reply to a question.“What we are interested in is developing our own missile programme and we are doing that.”
The United States said last June that it was willing to talk to India about supplying missile defence systems.
“We are willing to talk to India about missile defence. Missile defence is very expensive. So it is not something that India will enter into lightly,” US assistant secretary of state for arms control, Stephen Rademaker, had told reporters on a visit to New Delhi.
India and the United States last week signed a groundbreaking 10-year plan for military cooperation during a visit to Washington by Mukherjee.
India, a Cold War ally of the Soviet Union, has recently moved closer to the United States.
India pursuing manipulation of ionosphere to fry electronics of incoming warheads
India’s Missile experts realized very well that Ballistic missiles are useless since most countries can manipulate the ionosphere to destroy the missile………focused on frying all the electronics of any incoming ballistic missile that leave the earth’s atmosphere and then reenter the same on the other side of the world………use electromagnetic waves, laser and low frequency arrays to create billions of watts on of energy in the ionosphere to fry all the electronics of an incoming missile.
India’s Phalcon system to “Neutralize” Pakistani Missiles
Israel’s Phalcon system, previously sold to India, is capable of “neutralizing” Pakistan’s Shaheen II ballisic missile, according to a news report, which came just after Pakistan’s test of the Shaheen II on March 16.
US mum on THAAD
There was no word on whether the Israeli-American Arrow THAAD missile defense system, which India has previously sought, would also be approved, though Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee did express India’s position that all technology restrictions should be dropped.
All that the US said on the request for the THAAD
We are willing to talk to India about missile defence. Missile defence is very expensive. So, it is not something that India will enter into lightly,” visiting US assistant secretary of state for arms control, Stephen Rademaker, told reporters.
Regards,
Stealth Spy 🙂
If the full fledged 3D TVC from the Mig-29 OVT is offered for the Mig-29’s in the MRCA tender, along with this new Bars radar and all the new stuff on the navy’s Mig-29K’s and if it has a provision to be fitted with western aveonics (like in the MKI) i see no reason why the Mig-29 cannot win the MRCA deal…..and hopefully they’ll add technology transefer & licence production to it to add iceing on the cake
New Bars radar pic : http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/events/images/BARsRadar.jpg
About the new bars radar : http://www.aeroindiaseminar.com/Kanashchenko.htm
Mig-29 OVT’s TVC : 
question : can our Mig-21 bisons fire R-77’s ???

^^ this is the Franco-German ANF.
To my eyes, the pics in sinodefence and this look very similar.
Could France have sold the ANF to China and could YJ-12 be its chinese designation ?????
hey i just found this on it .. from sinodefence… is supersonic..confirmed..and JH-7 platform..its got all the info i wanted….check it out ….
Question : is the new YJ-12 supersonic ???…anyone got any pics of its launch, etc ??..what are the platforms it can be fired from ??
Does this bring their aveonics to MKI standard ??…….why no new weapons ??….for how many years will the Jag stay in IAF service from now on ??…why not the same upgrade to the Mig-29baaz too ??
At any rate, let me explain like this. The diverterless supersonic intake is not an American “design” like the AIDS drugs that US companies spent billions researching and creating (and which India was able to steal and sell to the third world at cheap prices because they never paid for the research. The moral question not being relevant to this discussion – simply that those drugs were created by Americans and then copied by Indians.) DSI is a concept.
I wont launch into a flame war but i’ll only tell you to give it up. You heard what the others said…its an issue that was resolved with the US.
First of all this not a pharma forum; and if you wish to speak of Indian copying speak of India reverse engineering weaponry, etc not some silly asprin tablet.
And your claim that India does not have the technical skill to reverse engineer is absurd to say the least. India does not copy weaponry because it does not want to do it.
And about the DSI intakes, are you trying to say that this is an independant indegenous Chinese development ????
Ofcourse there are no documents online that say “israel gave china DSI tech from the F-35”, but its in wide speculation isi’nt it ?? ..like Israel gave China the Patriot missile’s tech and denied doing so, like the Python-3 & 4, like Harpy’s, Lavi designs and loads of high end tech, tech from the F-16 used on the Lavi, etc…
Dragons and flames go hand in hand..no secret in that one….but golden will you please cool down and get back to china related topics and tell me….from where did China get the DSI intake technology….is it true that Israel leaked it from the F-35 ????
BTW : here is a great read on DSI technology http://www.codeonemagazine.com/arch…vertless_1.html
Gold airways, this is not the LCA thread, and the only reason i brought up the WS-10 is because your fellow madrassa cohort was trolling the LCA thread with crap that the Kaveri is a copy of the GE engine….and in the reference prior to that in the LCA thread i was only enquiring how hard it was to reverse engineer an engine, giving the WS-10 as an example as at that time i was under the impression that it was a copy of the AL-31FN as it was mentioned in the sinodefence link…
Anyway getting back to china related topics….from where did China get the DSI intake technology….is it true that Israel leaked it from the F-35 ????
BTW : here is a great read on DSI technology http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/2000/articles/july_00/divertless_1.html